Shanghai Gold Exchange (SGE and SFE) gold and silver

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rblong2us said:
Its not really a disaster for the gold community is it ?

China feels the need to hide its gold strategy and a few watchful commentators / analysts loose access to a useful piece of data.

Availability of real gold and demand for delivery is not easy to identify though and probably never will be, even after paper suppression blows up.
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Whether or not it is a real disaster or not to the gold community, I do not know. However I find it intriguing that each time some aspect of the world financial community starts to unravel, TPTB either discontinue information, change the rules, or cook up new definitions.

The fact that the Shanghai gold withdrawal data is being discontinued is enough evidence for me that something else is coming unraveled that they do not want seen.
 
Disaster? No.

Negative? I think so. Information/transparency informs good decision making. Things just got a bit more opaque.

Of course, for the committed stackers who just continue with a steady accumulation strategy, it doesn't matter at all.
 
Well, Y-Day is here! We've waited for years for the Chinese and their Shanghai Gold exchange to offer a competing Price "fix" to the existing structure out of London...and it all starts tomorrow! How will this impact the gold market? At what price will the Shanghai Fix come in?

By about 8:30 London time tomorrow morning (3:30 am EDT), we'll know. And won't it be fun to find out? How will this process work? At what price will tomorrow's yuan-denominated Fix be set?

From a "process" stand point, I don't suppose it will be radically different. The current spot market will be assessed and a "fix" price will be set. Then, for the next 24 hours, this will be the accepted price for wholesale gold that is transacted in yuan. Come Wednesday, the Fix will be reset to a new price according to market conditions.
...
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http://www.tfmetalsreport.com/blog/7572/yuan-denominated-gold-fix-begins-tomorrow

So, it went live last night.
 
And what a good day it was for all the metals.

How much did this new exchange effect todays price movements ?

There are 'grey swans' in many directions and the manipulation and cover ups are becoming so regular that Judges can say professional investors shoulda known better .....
and the media is legally allowed to lie cos its 'freedom of speech' .....

The pace of the collapse quickens (-:
 
rblong2us said:
And what a good day it was for all the metals.

How much did this new exchange effect todays price movements ?
...
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Hard to tell. Between central bank signalling and what's happening with the oil market, there are a lot of moving parts to keep track of. Looks like both metals are pushing their upper resistance though.
 
The days of JP Morgan controlling the silver market may be numbered as a new player in the silver market has arrived. For the past several years, JP Morgan held the most silver on a public exchange in the world. While the LBMA may hold (or did hold) more silver, their stockpiles are not made public.
...
Here we can see that JP Morgan’s total silver inventories have declined from 69.4 Moz to 67.2 Moz, while the Shanghai Futures Exchange silver stocks have increased from 54.7 Moz to 60.6 Moz. If the Shanghai Futures Exchange continues to add silver at this rate, it will surpass JP Morgan in a two to three weeks.
...
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More( incl. charts): https://srsroccoreport.com/stand-aside-jp-morgan-a-new-player-in-the-silver-market-has-arrived/

Note that this is the Shanghai Futures Exchange and not the SGE, but still related to China.
 
In an interesting development on Wednesday 12 September, the Shanghai Gold Exchange (SGE) launched trading of a new Chinese Gold Panda Coin contract on the SGE trading platform. With the addition of this listing, the SGE now offers physical trading of these famous Chinese gold bullion coins alongside its extensive range of physical gold bar and ingot trading contracts. As a reminder the Shanghai Gold Exchange is the largest physical gold exchange in the world, and nearly all gold in the Chinese gold market passes through the SGE.
...
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More:
www.bullionstar.com

Chinese Gold Panda Coins Now Trading On Shanghai's SGE

The Shanghai Gold Exchange has launched a Gold Panda coin contract for both individual and institutional investors.
www.bullionstar.com www.bullionstar.com
 
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rblong2us said:
"SGE Trading to facilitate Price Discovery" :eek:

no timescale though .............:flushed:
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* necro bump *

...
Analysts note that both Japanese and Chinese investors have become significant gold buyers in recent weeks as the precious metal has hit record highs against the Japanese yen. At the same time, gold premiums on the Shanghai Gold Exchange vs. prices in Comex gold futures have hit record highs.

The price premiums in China have started to attract significant attention on social media, with many analysts commenting on this unprecedented environment.

In an interview with Kitco News, John Reade, chief market strategist at the World Gold Council, said that a perfect storm is brewing in China's gold market as the government appears to be curbing imports as demand remains reasonably elevated.

Reade noted that premiums on the SGE vs. Comex futures were up 6.4% Thursday, the highest level he has seen since he started monitoring the gold market.
...
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More:

www.kitco.com

Premium on China's Shanghai Gold Exchange hits record highs as supply constraints and demand converge

Kitco News' general-interest stories takes a look at what is making headlines in the marketplace and how that is impacting precious metals prices
www.kitco.com

:popcorn:
 
Snap!

China's central bank has lifted temporary curbs on gold imports that were imposed on some lenders in a bid to defend the renminbi but caused the price of the precious metal to rise in the country.

The spread between the Shanghai gold price and London hit a record $121 per troy ounce last Thursday, according to calculations based on public traded prices.

The spread narrowed to $76 today after the People's Bank of China relaxed curbs on imports of the precious metal last week, said people familiar with the informal order given to some state and midsized commercial banks.

China in August had reduced and stopped granting quotas for international gold imports by banks to ease a rush in purchases to hedge against a weaker domestic currency. The renminbi fell to its lowest point against the dollar in 16 years in early September after the release of disappointing economic data. ...
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China lifts temporary curbs on gold imports as renminbi recovers | Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee | Exposing the long-term manipulation of the gold market

gata.org gata.org
 
Back in the day people did not really use much physical gold for regular purchases. They would carry some gold coins and convert them into silver at the bank. If they were buying bigger ticket items, then they used gold coins or certificates.
 
nickndfl said:
Back in the day people did not really use much physical gold for regular purchases. They would carry some gold coins and convert them into silver at the bank. If they were buying bigger ticket items, then they used gold coins or certificates.
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You know, I could actually see these roles reversing in the future.... Gold is potentially going to be more common and makes for great money because of its stability. I'm thinking about things like Goldbacks now with some new technology that makes small amounts also very feasible. Silver is a bit more reactive and I think may become too rare to be the everyday coin. It will be used up by industry and as a store of value.
 
Has China limited gold imports again?

...
A clear indication of the increased demand is the spread, or premium, shown by gold prices in China over the spot price in London, which is measured in dollars per troy ounce.

The spot price on the Shanghai Gold Exchange was around 470 yuan ($65) per gram as of Tuesday morning. That translates to a roughly $40 premium.
...
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Chinese pay premium prices for gold as economic outlook dims | Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee | Exposing the long-term manipulation of the gold market

gata.org gata.org
 


I don't watch or analyze these numbers, so I don't know if this is truly significant or just normal ebb and flow
 
Bai reports silver dropped to 935K kg in the latest SFE report.
 
SGE-China-Stocks-Silver.png



Shanghai Gold Exchange
Silver stocks
Credit to www.bullionstar.com
 
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That graph was from December 1st and the last data point showed ... <puts on reading glasses... grabs mouse to enhance.. enhance...>... slightly over 1400 tonnes of silver. In the last month and half, it's fallen to ~935 tonnes. That's slightly over 1/3 of their inventory gone since the graph was published. If that rate of decline holds true, they will run out of inventory in about 3 months. :popcorn:
 
pmbug said:
That graph was from December 1st and the last data point showed ... <puts on reading glasses... grabs mouse to enhance.. enhance...>... slightly over 1400 tonnes of silver. In the last month and half, it's fallen to ~935 tonnes. That's slightly over 1/3 of their inventory gone since the graph was published. If that rate of decline holds true, they will run out of inventory in about 3 months. :popcorn:
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PMB... don't get mad... the 930t figure refers to SFE... while the graph above... to SGE!


This is the SFE

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Since December 15, down from 1000t to 930t
1 month, -70t
-80% annualized
still not bad!

We just need a bigger bag of popcorn :D
 
Thanks! I missed that (obviously!).
 
Bai reports 923.7 for Jan 24. Silver inventory still shrinking.
 
Shanghai


Y 5943/kg
1Y = $0,14
$769/kg

769:1000 = x:31,1
x=23,91

Price oz silver in $
$22,69 NY
$23,91 Shanghai

1,22 premium
22,69:100=1,22:x

5,4% Shanghai's premium vs. NY

E&OE
 
"Silver investors often wonder why the miners sell their silver to the COMEX rather than going straight to the end user.
There's a lot of confusion on how the process actually works. But fortunately Vince Lanci checks in today and explains what happens to the silver, and how all of the different counter-parties interact.
He talks about where the silver actually goes, and why the silver miners aren't selling their metal directly to Shanghai where premiums remain elevated."

30 min.

 
pmbug said:
Chengtong PM limited
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Many thanks PM!

Deep Sea Mosasaur in the Precious Metals Market​

"In short, the parent company of Chengtong Precious Metal Company is China Logistics Group, and China Logistics Group is a central enterprise directly under the State Council.

Chengtong PM cooperated with the People's Bank of China and other top-degree units, to design and establish Shanghai Gold Exchange, and to lead the historical reform of silver from the planned economic system to the market-oriented system, to organize the listing of silver products, and participate in the design of silver contracts in Shanghai Futures Exchange. It is the founder and pioneer of China's silver market, as well as the maker of gold and silver trading rules and industrial policies.

Chengtong PM is the largest importer and exporter of silver in China.

Chengtong PM also engages in investment and asset management, known as the second treasury after the People's Bank of China.

According to information disclosed on its official website, it currently stores 3000 tons of gold and over 10000 tons of silver on behalf of Chinese private customers! If adding the company's silver inventory on SGE and SFE's silver vaults has exceeded 13000 tons! The data disclosed here is the first time we have obtained data on private gold and silver reserves, and it is only a small part of China's huge private gold and silver reserves."
 
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SFE silver vault, -3% in 1 single day

West silver, $23
China silver, $25

West gold $2020
China gold, $2070
 
Not surprising news given the SGE/COMEX environment:
The global shift in the gold market continued unabated in January as trade data from Switzerland showed robust flows of the precious metal to Eastern nations.

In its latest trade report, Switzerland said that 207 tonnes of gold were exported from Europe’s largest refining hub to China, India and Hong Kong. According to reports, gold exports out of Switzerland reached an eight-year high.

“Shipments to India rose 73% to 14 tons, to China it more than doubled to 77.8 tons, to Hong Kong it rose almost 7x to 44.6 tons,” said commodity analysts at MKS PAMP Group in a note Tuesday.
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Left unsaid in that report was how much gold exports to the COMEX/LBMA might have been reduced from normal flows to feed the surplus demand from China and India.
 
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25,4 Shanghai
22,6 "official" price
$2,8 = 11% premium

Shanghai closes at 3pm local time
At 3pm Shanghai time the silver international price was $22,6
(I hope I'm not wrong)
 
Voodoo said:
A 10%+ difference seems like an Easy arbitrage opportunity. That would pay for the hassle and shipping costs to drain the COMEX of all their silver.
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Exactly. Either China has import quotas or foreign companies need a permission to send to China and sell in Shanghai.
But still I don't understand why the authorities prohibits it:
Shanghai silver buyers could get silver at lower prices!
They would facilitate the accumulation of silver inside the country.
They would increase Shanghai volume, thus increasing the importance of a Chinese exchange on the world market.
I don't understand
 
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25.40 vs. 22.50
$3 premium
how high do premiums have to be in order for arbitrageurs to jump in
 
Peter89 said:
the premium!
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That could be indicative of other things like import restrictions, international transportation issues (costs, insurance, etc.), liquidity, etc.

...or... maybe difficulty in sourcing physical in the west to send east....
 
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