All purpose firearm collection

[dontdeBasemebro]

No doubt that everyone with enough sense to be interested in PMs recognizes that being able to protect yourself and your property is necessary even in good times, let alone bad times.

Therefore, I'd like to share my views on what types of firearms would constitute a well rounded collection.

The purpose of this is to generate a list of versatile firearms that are reasonably capable of covering the variety of situations in which a firearm may need to be used, thus forming a small, foundational collection. It is not to list the ideal arm for each task or to field an army, but rather a realistic setup that most of us could acquire and transport when needed. The types/brands mentioned are for example, I have no intention to start a brand/caliber argument.

With that said, I'd want to at least have a:

1. .22LR rifle (bolt, lever, auto, etc.) -

• great for training and developing fundamental marksmanship skill (especially for new shooters)
• useful for varmint hunting
• affordable guns and affordable ammunition

2. medium-sized semi auto rifle (AR, Mini-14/30, AK, SKS, etc.) - some of these may be called "assault rifles", but I think that is a silly and vague term as I've never seen a happy-fluffly-sunshine-and-rainbows rifle that shoots love.

• very effective for self defense, even in the worst situations (the army uses these afterall)
• can hunt medium sized game (i.e. .223/5.56 and 7.62x39 can be used for deer and smaller)
• ammunition is reasonably priced for its capabilities and widely available
• affordability - some surplus models can be had for less than 10 oz Ag

3. shotgun - there is a huge variety here once you get into pumps, autos, and the various break-actions, but for simplicity and versatility I would focus mainly on the pump with the auto second.

• extremely effective for defense
• one of the easier firearms to operate (but you still have to aim!)
• durable - round count can get into the 6-figure range with regular basic maintenance
• versatility - wide range of ammo from fine shot to slugs can do just about everything
• hunting capabilities - with the right ammo you could take everything from birds to large game if need be
• can be had for about 5 oz Ag at many outdoor/sports stores in addition to the gun stores

4a. service sized semi-auto handgun (~4 in barrel, 9mm and up, Glock, XD, Sig, 1911, CZ, Beretta, etc.) - hauling a long gun around is not always feasible, but evil doesn't take vacations, so be armed whenever possible

• self defense tool that can go everywhere you go
• readily concealable if need be (need being practical or legal)
• easily stashed in strategic locations
• can be used one handed, allowing the use of additional tools (phone, flashlight) or carrying important things (survival bag, child, 90% Ag...)
• can get high capacity in a small package for some models - having 20 rounds in something under your shirt is pretty handy

4b. full sized revolver (~4-6 in barrel, .357 +) - serves many of the same purposes as 4a so I'll highlight some of the differences, I think have 4a and 4b is ideal but at least have one of them

• can be easier to use for newer shooters
• easier to collect brass after firing - important for reloading
• can shoot a wide variety of ammo (weak to very hot) including multiple calibers
• fewer problems when shooting poorer quality ammo
• with proper loads can be used for hunting, sometimes fairly large game (hogs especially)

The above 4 (or 5) arms should cover you for just about task you may need to undertake and are readily available at local stores and for feasible prices depending on what models you get.

The next 2 are nice-to-haves that would be on my list once the above are obtained.

5. .22LR hand gun (revolver or semi-auto)

• great training tool
• affordable
• excellent way to introduce new shooters to handguns
• they're fun!

6. high powered rifle (.30-06, 7.62x54r, 300WM, .45-70, etc.)

• excellent for large game, especially when that game is at longer distances
• they're fun!
• surplus guns and ammo can be quite affordable, especially for the power

I hope those that are unfamiliar with firearms find this a useful starting point, and those that are familiar can add further insight (or at least use it as an excuse to buy more guns).

 

[DoChenRollingBearing]

EXCELLENT!

I just have two: a 9mm Beretta and an AK-47 (semi-auto Russian-American "Saiga").

My "Dream Gun" would be the wonderful looking Lupua .338:

onlylongrange.com

This rifle also has a muzzle brake which means that recoil would not dislocate my scrawny shoulder. It has an effective range (someone who is trained up, unlike me) of over a mile...

I was indeed hoping that a guns thread would turn up, thanks for bringing us the info dontbeBasemebro!

 

[oppie2005]

I have enough to take care of me and mine lol. I have the .22 semi-auto rifle, Mak 90, SKS, 12guage, and Springfield xd40.

 

[KMS]

Was just shooting my FNH 12ga and my 9mm XDM this morning.

^ Holds 7+1.

^ 2000 rounds through it and zero malfunctions so far.

Of note, extra magazines for this are regularly $50 each. I got 4 extra when they went on sale for half of that. $25 each, from Springfield. Just like the 2 that came with it. Once you start to build that arsenal, do the research, know what you're getting into, and keep an eye on sales to help save money when you can.

Then, there is this:

Feel free to read up on it here. I love this rifle. My girlfriend gets jealous of the love I give it.

No, mine is not fully cherried out like this. I'm an old fashioned iron sights kinda guy. However, I did get the newer iron sights with the Tritium night sights.


I live rather close to a a very good Army buddy of mine, and we have other family/friends and some of them are prior service too. We're all armed. We have a few toys, but we also have a bit of 'standardization' going. For example, we all have at least one 12ga. We all have at least one AR that shoots the 5.56/.223, and we all have a 9mm.

The reason for this is that the military carries and uses those calibers. If "China" were to invade tomorrow, our group could approach the local militia, National Guard/Reserve, etc and say, "Hey, we got weapons, just help with some extra ammo and we'll watch our sector of fire and help you guys out." Not to mention, if there are dead good or bad guys on the streets, and we're scavenging for ammo and supplies, chances are better that we can actually use what we get. Even with my 7.62 NATO LaRue OBR, (see above) I can find those easier than some exotic high powered magnum round.

 

[Adirondack Gold]

Silver, guns, food. How does it work when the neighbor you love who never listened to your warnings faces starvation? or needs a quick front of silver to keep his life liquid? Do you feed them or shoot them, cause thay arent gonna just leave. Seems the ONLY solution is to involve the whole neighborhood. Everyone needs to store what they can and work together, but no one shares my sense of urgency.
I do love to collect guns though. I miss the 75 round drum mag for my mak-90, but its a big no no in NY state.

 

[DoChenRollingBearing]

dontdeBasemebro and PMBug, I just put a link to this thread on my blog.

pmbug.com members! Want to look at my blog? Send me a private message.

 

[pacapcop]

New to site.For me it's a Glock 20 10mm.The 10 round has made a resurgence due to Glock making a gun DESIGNED for the 10mm cartridge.The 10 was infamous in the 80's but fell to the wayside when the FBI decieded to go with the .40 S&W.The agents did not handle the so called recoil.However as i stated Glock makes the gun to handle high pressure full load original spec 10mm rounds whick were from ammo maker Norma from Sweden.200 grain shell outputting 1200 FPS and around 680 ftp.Their are now numerous makers of the 10mm that arrived on the scene that are responding to recent demand.This is a great woods gun for hunting as well as a great CCW.Glock makes in Fullsize as well as Sub Compact.Ammo makers i suggest are Underwood Ammo.Com,Swampfox Ammo,and ck Cheaper Than Dirt as a alternative.Any intrest in 10mm go to the 10mm Talk Forum Ar15 site.Lots of input and discussion on the mighty 10mm.Of course for the cost concern and bulk buy the 9mm is good to have.I would go with Glock or Sig Sauer for reliability and battle tested durability first.Pretty guns are nice but when the SHTF ugly and reliable are needed.Spring Field is a nice one too.The .45,proven winner within 75 yards.Thats where the 10mm takes over.AK-47's.Whats not to like,wall of lead thrown up when packs are a comin,RELIABLE.Saiga 12 for me.Were talkin AK Shotgun performance that can be easily be cleared of a FTF ot FTE situation but can hold large amounts of Buck Shot or Slug.Stay with high velocity high brass as the semi types digest these and perform.

 

[pmbug]

Nice post ddbmb.

I largely agree with your central premise, however I think one can easily substitute a high powered rifle (.308) for a medium-sized semi auto rifle (.223, etc.). Especially if you have a large enough piece of land/property to defend.

I'm proud to say I've got all of those bases covered and am working on my lead collection.

For anyone unfamiliar with firearms and scratching their head when reading this thread, I would highly recommend locating a few local shooting ranges in your area and visiting (or at least contacting) them. Many ranges will rent firearms for use so you can try different models and find one (haha... one) that works for you.

I've got a local outdoor range that offers free, monthly classes with safety instruction and they supply the firearms and ammo for the day. Can't beat that.

 

[KMS]

Silver, guns, food. How does it work when the neighbor you love who never listened to your warnings faces starvation? or needs a quick front of silver to keep his life liquid? Do you feed them or shoot them, cause thay arent gonna just leave. Seems the ONLY solution is to involve the whole neighborhood. Everyone needs to store what they can and work together, but no one shares my sense of urgency.

Yes, you need think about what to do in situations like this. A united community can defend against looting outsiders a lot easier than a community that is divided. Maybe have some flyers ready to put up, posters etc. Calling for a 'town meeting' in the event of SHTF at your local community center, etc. Getting organized early/quickly would be beneficial to all. Some folks won't make plans fast enough or see the early warnings.
Just an idea.

 

[dontdeBasemebro]

I largely agree with your central premise, however I think one can easily substitute a high powered rifle (.308) for a medium-sized semi auto rifle (.223, etc.). Especially if you have a large enough piece of land/property to defend.

Certainly, something like a FAL could support the roles of the medium semi-auto and the high powered rifle and do pretty well at it. My main reason for recommending .223/5.56 or 7.62x39 is for price and availability, but .308 is a great round that anyone with gun sense wouldn't hesitate to rely on.

 

[RealFinney]

As a Brit it's practically impossible to obtain a firearms licence, so instead the chavs all carry blades. Here is a quick round up:

1 - Biro Pen

• Cheap
• Discrete
• Writes!

Don't underestimate the value of being able to shiv someone with a pen. "Your honour, my client instinctively lashed out in response to his assailants attack and just happened to stab him in the eye with a Bic."

2 - Flick Knife

• Stabby
• Menacing
• Illegal as fuck

Since this is an actual weapon, don't let Inspector Knacker find you carrying it

3 - Katana

• Psycho's choice
• Good for posing on facebook
• Probably fall to pieces instantly

Freely available in pawn shops and via mail order along with a wakazashi and a cute little stand, generally used for crazed rampages.

4 - Hatchet

• Plausible tool?
• Choppy
• Here's Johnny!

A little indiscrete for carrying about town, but otherwise ideal for one upping the little shit with a 3" pocket knife who's trying to hold you up.

 

[pmbug]

Welcome to the forum RF.

You guys are at a serious disadvantage without firearms to protect yourselves. Have you ever looked into walking canes? Search "walking cane self defense" and you will find books and videos devoted to the subject. There are some wicked cool canes out there too.

 

[DoChenRollingBearing]

Ha ha, RealFinney!

I think that you are going to be a great asset, a treasure here at pmbug.com.

Re knives, here in Floriduh you can buy (I bought one two weeks ago) folding knives that essentially are switchblades! They have a little protrusion on the back side of the blade that you pull on, and SNICK!, out it comes...

Here, listen:


Hear that? Made by Kershaw (and in the USA), with a patented design. Here, I'll open it again for your listening pleasure:


Pretty cool, huh?

 

[dontdeBasemebro]

Welcome to the board, Finney.

I hope one day that British citizens will be regain the right to defend themselves like civilized people.

Until then, Kershaw does make a nice knife. They open effortlessly, are well made, and are priced reasonably (at least here in the US). Mine goes basically everywhere with me.

 

[DCFusor]

Hi, a noob here, but not at guns - I'm a gunsmith and competitor and own too many to easily count. Just thought I'd put in my take on them.
1. A gun you can't shoot well quickly under pressure is pointless, and dangerous.
2. No gun makes you bulletproof.
Which really aren't comments about guns, but about people and your own skill and situational awareness. Now on to what I do myself.

There's a little pullout shelf under my side of the bed. On it are a Carbon-15, and a pair of sawed off cue sticks - think fat drumsticks -- wood short swords. I can throw these 30 feet and have them hit end on - brutal thrown or used like most would think.

My carry gun is a .38 Taurus titanium with a very hot crimson-trace laser on it. It goes through most metal detectors. "Do not look into laser with remaining eye". That's the point - make them run away, shooting someone makes a mess to clean up.

By my main front door I keep a million candle power hand searchlight. I've actually had to use this to ward off angry drunks. I defy you to hurt me while the skin is peeling off your face, and it's blinding even if you close your eyes - and legal to brandish even though it does do harm(!).

My truck gun is a CZ-97b in .45 - everyone I hand that to shoots it well. 10 in the clip. My 1911 race gun doesn't hold a candle to it, FYI, and I'm a 1911 fan. This is just a better gun (designed by the same guy, later in life).

I agree that a good long range gun is important, and I like .308 for that. I have a Ruger target version that army snipers have lusted after. It wasn't that great when I bought it, but now I use it for "egg shoots" where we shoot at chicken eggs at 1 km. It's really that good (now). I also keep an AR-10 ready to go - fast if not as accurate.
The point there is standoff and not necessarily revealing where it came from, along with enough oomph to get the job done. I don't like more powerful rounds, as they are harder to shoot well, more expensive (unless you reload as I do), and make it easier to figure out where the shot came from.

Bench-rest guns are fun, and mostly what I shoot, but it'd be an extreme case to pull one out for defense. I do also own AR's in various configurations, numerous other rifles and handguns.
And shotguns. I like the old pump action, as again, that distinctive sound of racking one usually makes it unnecessary to actually shoot it. It wouldn't be my go-to in most situations though.

The one you'd have to pry from my cold dead fingers is a S&W mod 14 .38 with a red dot on it. It's won more bullseye competitions than I can easily count, and just works for me from close in out to 100 yds with a special +p load I built for it. Red dot == black hole, every time.

Have quite a few others. The FN five-seven is fun, an assault rifle power thing you can put in a pocket - light Ti cored bullets that are "cop killers" - go right through armor. Not real accurate yet - going to have to go over that one. 20 round clip in a pistol...neat and fun, not sure if it's really practical.

You guys with limits on what you can legally own ought to look into the "wood short swords" -- they do take skill, but they can't search or bust you for knowing how to work them. I'm also a drummer, so it came naturally, but believe me, they're as deadly as can be - just the right weight to be fast with, but still break bones if required.

Guns take skill too - don't think you can buy one, shoot half a box at some range in perfect conditions, and be set. I teach the CCW course locally with another guy. As part of the demo, I attack him at some point in the presentation while he's wearing an air-soft gun, open carry for fast draw - I go from 7 paces. He's fast (retired cop), but hasn't managed to hit me yet...and he knows it's coming, just not when. That's a lot closer to reality than "practical pistol shooting" or as they say, "bullseyes don't shoot back".

 

[DoChenRollingBearing]

Nice and interesting post DCFusor. Good comment re putting in the time and building up a skill set.

Would it be heresy here if I devote more of my money in 2012 to buying a couple of guns mentioned in this thread?

 

[pmbug]

If you are new to firearms, I would suggest starting with ddbd's first suggestion. Get a .22lr pistol and/or rifle and find a local shooting range and start practicing. Give yourself a chance to learn proper technique before developing bad habits with high powered firearms.

 

[RealFinney]

Thanks for the welcome guys, I'll go introduce myself.

By my main front door I keep a million candle power hand searchlight. I've actually had to use this to ward off angry drunks. I defy you to hurt me while the skin is peeling off your face, and it's blinding even if you close your eyes - and legal to brandish even though it does do harm(!)

Whoa, I like this - checking on Amazon these things are surprisingly affordable, I think i might invest in a decent one to go next to the table leg I keep under my bed.

Surely this is the must have?

 

[DCFusor]

I think it's a must-have myself, though I didn't think of it - my business partner did and gave me one, and I figured it out after that. It's on the shelf next to the front (and only) door. Leaning next to it is a marlin .22 semi auto rifle with a 3-9x scope set on 3 for "quick, get that varmint" and hanging over the same door is a 6.5 mm Swede for larger varmints that might need more horsepower...I keep the shotguns in another building on campus, for when the crows get in my corn and general clay-busting fun.

At any rate, if there 's "trouble" you just pick up the appropriate tool(s) before unlocking and opening the door -- and more often than not, it's the big light, which has a lot of other uses if the trouble isn't something requiring lethal force. You can always use it as a club, too - no one expects that, and of course can't see it coming with their eyes involuntarily shut.

There are of course other light-based front door defense enhancements. I have led spotlights (I'm on solar power, off the grid) on the porch and just inside the door, weird color, so everyone looks up. Now that they are night-blind, I can easily handle anyone from the shadows...heh. And it all looks so innocuous!

 

[rblong2us]

Echo RealFinneys comments about gun ownership.

Best is to look as poor and hungry as you can and not have any visible defence.
Blend in, rather than shout out you have something worth defending.

As Adirondack Gold said, you actually cant shoot your neighbour(s), unless you are a true psycopath.

My instinct is to be open and welcoming to any individual approaching, show them a nearly empty food store and offer them something from it. the main store obviously remains hidden.
Would you deny food to a mother of a starving child ?
If you would, Im not sure I want to be associated with you .......

And that fookin cheap yellow soup powder / 3 year old uncle bens mushroom n rice, is so disgusting you will be glad to give it away.

However the high powered torch and wasp spray by the door are simple enough to arrange.

 

[DosZap]

Couple of Obs.

First (and as is a matter of debate,LE smart ones do not use them),ONE, you do not want a light attached to your handgun or weapon, TWO, you do not want Night sights on them either.

Nor Lasers in my opinion.

Reasons,simple.

Attached lighting is showing the perp exactly where your are and where to shoot.

Night sites, can be seen at an angle, and give your position away.

Also,I did not see this listed( IMHO).......... IF someone/s, break into your home,STAY where you are, and make them come to you.

Advantage YOU.

High beam light, and cover, and you get first shots.(go prowling, and you are in the open).

An addition for small game,an Air rifle.(quieter than a .22,and less attention).

Glock (or similar),9mm/.45ACP. 17/19/21

Agree with most of what's been posted,my take is at least a .22LR Semi,rifle,and pistol.
At least two 5.56/.223(AR platform semi's,good to 500yds+),Pmags(excellent),small parts repair kit.

Also,right NOW as cheap as Saiga 7.62x39's are, at least one, preferably two.(parts/backup/super cheap ammo).Good for 200yds max(unless you have a really good one),these would be for IN close work.

An accurate .308 bolt gun, scoped minimum of xix,good to your ability.If your good it will keep the Molotov's chunkers FAR away from your abode ( and at least 1k-5k rds of ammo for each weapon(excluding shotgun).

Also, at least One 7.62x51 Semi(DPMS/Rock/Bushie/Armalite), for the mag fed models,as many mags as you can afford,use, and (Barter).

Same for the ammunition.

Needless to say, a GOOD safe(Non digital locks) S & G Dials only, and a Sat capable alarm system as well as hard wired(if your phone systems cut,your still GTG.)

We think nothing of protecting assets, and owning thousands of dollars worth of PM's, and why would we NOT be willing to invest(2-5k) in the only things that can help keep you alive, and in possession.

Again, IMHO, and fwiw.

 

[ancona]

Although I am new to this site, I am a looooong time prepper. I will not discuss my personal OP SEC here, but largely agree with the general tenor and content. This sounds like a serious an d devoted crowd, and I suspect that come SHTF time, you will be among the survivors.

That said, I wanted to comment about the chap who says no tac-lights or lasers. I say right on man. NEVER use equipment that can/will give away your position. Retaining your cover is more valuable than the ability to bring a target in to focus a little sooner. As for NV, unless it is gen 3 or better, and unless you are that guy who is on the range every single Saturday for five hours, the odds of actually getting a long distance hit at night are very small, even with a scope and night vision. The special optics will nearly double the weight of your battle rifle, and the glow of the sight tube can give you away to the enemy if they have a simple pair of binoculars.

 

[Arkad]

As a Brit it's practically impossible to obtain a firearms licence, so instead the chavs all carry blades. Here is a quick round up:

1 - Biro Pen

• Cheap
• Discrete
• Writes!

Don't underestimate the value of being able to shiv someone with a pen. "Your honour, my client instinctively lashed out in response to his assailants attack and just happened to stab him in the eye with a Bic."

2 - Flick Knife

• Stabby
• Menacing
• Illegal as fuck

Since this is an actual weapon, don't let Inspector Knacker find you carrying it

3 - Katana

• Psycho's choice
• Good for posing on facebook
• Probably fall to pieces instantly

Freely available in pawn shops and via mail order along with a wakazashi and a cute little stand, generally used for crazed rampages.

4 - Hatchet

• Plausible tool?
• Choppy
• Here's Johnny!

A little indiscrete for carrying about town, but otherwise ideal for one upping the little shit with a 3" pocket knife who's trying to hold you up.

As we say in the states... "Never bring a knife to a gun fight"!

 

[DCFusor]

While I have to agree with the "no light on the gun" idea, for the reasons given, I'm not taking the laser off my carry piece. I don't have to push the button if I don't want it to light up. But if I get the drop on someone - that laser in the face always makes them run, so I don't have to actually shoot them. Most of the time, that's what you want, I think.

Sure, if someone has a drawn weapon and is coming looking for me, I don't want the show them where I am till it's too late for them. But that's not what the laser is for - it's to make them not want to draw the gun at all - they know they'll be shot before than can do it, and that I will definitely score a hit on one of their "off" switches.

If you have a light, my preferred way is to hold it in the other hand, far from my body. If they shoot at the light...I don't care - and now I know just where they are by the muzzle flash, as my own light didn't blind me. Putting a flashlight right on the gun always seemed dumb to me, and yes, the cops don't do it.

As mentioned above, my house "night lights" are arranged such that anyone coming in my door is likely to be blinded by them for a few seconds. My spot (near my bed) is in complete darkness, so I get time to decide what to do in the event before they can see me at all. Those kinds of things can be a lot more important than the gun/knife/wood short sword choices you have.