Review: Provident Metals

Website: https://www.providentmetals.com/

Location: Dallas, Texas

Shipping: $10 on orders under $200, free for larger orders. All orders shipped with insurance.

Payment Options: Bank Wire, ACH/eCheck, Personal Check, Cashier’s Checks, Money Orders, Bitcoin, PayPal, Credit/Debit Card, Apple Pay, Google Pay

~~~

I was very impressed with their service and they have pretty decent prices also. From most everything I have read elsewhere, they have a good reputation.

You can buy online here, which means you can lock in the current spot price no matter what time of day, 24hrs a day. (Oh do I wish I was up at 2 am when the silver spot price very briefly dipped to $26 several weeks ago).

Metals are shipped out quickly after an order is placed.

 

[pmbug]

Website: http://www.providentmetals.com/

Provident is located in Texas, so anyone from Texas will have to pay sales tax on orders less that $1,000.

Provident only accepts credit card orders for $1,500 or less. Larger orders must be paid by check, money order or bank wire.

Their website is easy to navigate and they do show both their cash and credit card prices for all products clearly.

In my comparisons of online dealers, Provident has consistently been in the top 3 of lowest prices - and usually the #1 among dealers that do not have a mininum purchase requirement.

They have a stellar reputation for shipping and delivery.

 

[protectmywealth]

I had a terrible experience with Provident Metals and I know from searching the internet that I am not the only one. Extremely delayed shipping, coins were not as described when they finally arrived, and aweful customer service. Would never buy from Provident Metals again!

 

[PMD Victim]

Provident Metals scam

Edit (PMBug): The following post turned out to be very wrong. Please see post #9 below for PMD Victim's mea culpa.

I too have had a horrible experience with Provident Metals and will be going to court to recover my loss. Ordered 5 - 2012 Year of The Dragon 5 0z silver bars but only received 3. They say there is nothing they can (read- WILL) do to help. Provident Metals is trying to rip me off for 2 - 2012 Year of the Dragon 10 oz silver bars. I have five witnesses that were present when I received the box and opened it. The box was completely intact and untampered. The tape job made it almost impossible to open without clear signs of tampering. There can only be two possible cases, this was an honest mistake or it it outright fraud! I will see them in court.

Do you know of others who have been cheated by this company? I'm gathering as much data and witnesses as possible to hold their feet to the fire.

Edit (PMBug): Provident Metals contacted me regarding this post and said:

... in this particular case we actually did send this gentleman 5 ten oz silver dragon bars. We have HD video evidence of the packaging as we film every package that goes out the door to protect our customers interests as well as our own. ...

 

[pmbug]

Thanks for sharing your story. Please do let us know if they make you whole on your order. In the meantime, I encourage you (and pmw) to use the thread rating (located just above the first post in the thread on the right hand side) to rate the thread 1 star (or whatever you believe is appropriate) to reflect your opinion of Provident Metals.

 

[ancona]

I am very sorry to hear about that PMDV, because it always enrages me when I hear stuff like this. On another site I am a member of, one of the long timers who is a good and trusted member dealt with Tulving and had a bad experience with them. Evidently, he convinced his pop to buy a "quantity" of sovereign silver [Eagles I believe] and received generic crap instead. Hans would not make it right no matter how loud the squeaky wheel got.

Unfortunately for small buyers like us, there are far too few options beyond a few very highly respected outfits and our LCS. I use Apmex, who has some of the highest premiums around, but who have on every shipment, honored their agreement. I also infrequently use Northwest Territorial Mint, because their premiums are reasonable and the silver is always what I ordered, but the wait times make me crazy. A couple of grand is just too much dough for me to wait around three months for my metals. I have twice used Bullion Direct with good results, but I can't stand the e-mail bombardment trying to get me to have a fucking Nucleo account, but again, I always get what I order.

OTOH, my LCS, Bay Coin in Melbourne, is an awesome place to do business. The premiums are always equivalent to the more competitive on-line dealers and I don't pay tax. He doesn't always have what I want, but if I leave a token deposit of 10$, he will get me anything I want and deliver it to my home. That's right.......he brings it to my office or directly to my house. I am not talking about monster boxes either, just a hundred ounces or so. The guy is honorable and has good inventory. If I let him know in advance about something odd I may be on the lookout for, he puts the request on his "hot sheet" and for a very small 'vig' matches me with a seller so the transaction is clean, and if I wish, he will shoot it with his Niton gun, or I will simply bring mine. In fact, when a client of his wanted to shoot some 5 ounce gold rounds [20 I think] he asked me to come in with my gun, because the guy doubted his calibration or something. Anyway, when I finished he gave me a five ounce JM silver bar with old school serial numbers. I didn't ask for anything for shooting the gold, I just did it.

When we forge relationships with our dealers, it becomes important to realize that they may be the only people who have any silver or gold at all when it really counts, and they will most likely only wish to deal with people they know and trust at the end of fiat.

Again, I am so sorry to hear that you got jagged for twenty ounces of silver, which is over six hundred clams that "evaporated". That sucks enough to make me want to go all baseball bat on someone. Look at it this way man, at least it wasn't gold...........I know that doesn't make you feel any better, but when I learn hard lessons, I prefer they are as inexpensive as possible. It may be a case of simple pilfering, but I fail to see how any PM dealer would not have metal detectors at the entrance and exit of a warehouse or bullion room, because it makes perfect sense to do so. Just like drug lords who use all women in their handling and processing rooms, then requires them to work naked so it is virtually impossible to steal product, metals dealers should use RF protected rooms with metal detection systems at all entrances/exits.

 

[PMD Victim]

I am very sorry to hear about that PMDV, because it always enrages me when I hear stuff like this. On another site I am a member of, one of the long timers who is a good and trusted member dealt with Tulving and had a bad experience with them. Evidently, he convinced his pop to buy a "quantity" of sovereign silver [Eagles I believe] and received generic crap instead. Hans would not make it right no matter how loud the squeaky wheel got.

Unfortunately for small buyers like us, there are far too few options beyond a few very highly respected outfits and our LCS. I use Apmex, who has some of the highest premiums around, but who have on every shipment, honored their agreement. I also infrequently use Northwest Territorial Mint, because their premiums are reasonable and the silver is always what I ordered, but the wait times make me crazy. A couple of grand is just too much dough for me to wait around three months for my metals. I have twice used Bullion Direct with good results, but I can't stand the e-mail bombardment trying to get me to have a fucking Nucleo account, but again, I always get what I order.

OTOH, my LCS, Bay Coin in Melbourne, is an awesome place to do business. The premiums are always equivalent to the more competitive on-line dealers and I don't pay tax. He doesn't always have what I want, but if I leave a token deposit of 10$, he will get me anything I want and deliver it to my home. That's right.......he brings it to my office or directly to my house. I am not talking about monster boxes either, just a hundred ounces or so. The guy is honorable and has good inventory. If I let him know in advance about something odd I may be on the lookout for, he puts the request on his "hot sheet" and for a very small 'vig' matches me with a seller so the transaction is clean, and if I wish, he will shoot it with his Niton gun, or I will simply bring mine. In fact, when a client of his wanted to shoot some 5 ounce gold rounds [20 I think] he asked me to come in with my gun, because the guy doubted his calibration or something. Anyway, when I finished he gave me a five ounce JM silver bar with old school serial numbers. I didn't ask for anything for shooting the gold, I just did it.

When we forge relationships with our dealers, it becomes important to realize that they may be the only people who have any silver or gold at all when it really counts, and they will most likely only wish to deal with people they know and trust at the end of fiat.

Again, I am so sorry to hear that you got jagged for twenty ounces of silver, which is over six hundred clams that "evaporated". That sucks enough to make me want to go all baseball bat on someone. Look at it this way man, at least it wasn't gold...........I know that doesn't make you feel any better, but when I learn hard lessons, I prefer they are as inexpensive as possible. It may be a case of simple pilfering, but I fail to see how any PM dealer would not have metal detectors at the entrance and exit of a warehouse or bullion room, because it makes perfect sense to do so. Just like drug lords who use all women in their handling and processing rooms, then requires them to work naked so it is virtually impossible to steal product, metals dealers should use RF protected rooms with metal detection systems at all entrances/exits.

I learn my hard lessons well but will not stand for being ripped off. This is going to court. Apmex was our original dealer and I'll go back to them. I will NEVER do business with PM again.

 

[ancona]

While it is only 600 samoleans, I agree with you on this 'Vic. Fuck these pricks! The judge can and most likely will, give you treble damages and force Provident Metals to pay your legal expenses. Just remember to document how much time yopu spend preparing your case. Every second is billable time. Fuck these guys and feed 'em fish heads.

 

[PMD Victim]

Thanks for sharing your story. Please do let us know if they make you whole on your order. In the meantime, I encourage you (and pmw) to use the thread rating (located just above the first post in the thread on the right hand side) to rate the thread 1 star (or whatever you believe is appropriate) to reflect your opinion of Provident Metals.

My sincerest apologies to Provident Metals. The mistake was on my end and not theirs. After a heeping helping of crow, I must retract the statement above. I will continue to do business with Provident Metals. if they will allow me too. They are a fine company. Jeremy, to you my most heartfelt apology.

 

[rblong2us]

Ok PMDV,

what caused the misunderstanding with Provident that has you apologising so profusely ???

 

[pmbug]

My sincerest apologies to Provident Metals. The mistake was on my end and not theirs. ...

I would be happy to change your username if you would like to continue participating here. So what's the story?

 

[PMD Victim]

Ok PMDV,

what caused the misunderstanding with Provident that has you apologising so profusely ???

It's really to lengthy and complicated to explain but just understand, it was my error not theirs and when I know I've made a mistake, I admit it and set about to immediately make things right.

 

[pmbug]

I updated post #4 with a response from Provident Metals.

 

[ancona]

I think it shows a lot of pride in product to scour PM sites to set their record straight and keep the communication lines open. I have seen a whole lot of emotion about PM's, especially when folks make a large buy and think there is a problem when actually there is not. I have seen folks bash the hell out of a company only to have a rep from the company sign on and add their side of the story. My pop always said that the truth almost always lies in the middle, and not on one side or the other.

More than a few times, I've seen PM dealers stand up for themselves on-line, after taking a bashing, and it helped to clear the picture each and every time.

Remember folks, when you type something on the internet, it is there forever.

 

[rblong2us]

Ordered 5 - 2012 Year of The Dragon 5 0z silver bars but only received 3.

Seriously, how can there be a mix up between 3 and 5 bars ????

You say loads of witnesses to there being only 3 bars when you opened the package, yet accept belatedly that Provident Metals sent you 5 bars ........

How can this be too complicated to explain ??????

 

[issaquahbob]

I am on the same page. Something important is missing here and until we hear a short explanation it will be hard to simply accept "sorry it was actually all my fault" after all the negative posts, even if credit is given for fessing up to the error. 3 vs 5 is hard to reconcile along with "multiple witnesses". Those who post should follow the old adage, measure twice, cut once. Or, more simply and redundantly stated, be absolutely sure you are 100% correct...

And to add one more point. The first person posting negative about PM has only one post. Hmmm. Second poster has four but all on same issue. As a newbie I am here to learn, not be negative, especially early on.

 

[white&yellow999]

Remember folks, when you type something on the internet, it is there forever.

Until the mods take it down.

 

[ancona]

I agree with Bob on this one. I do not see how this could be at all complicated. If it is a matter of a split delivery, when they send half today and half in a couple of days when their wholesale inventory is resupplied, then point that out to us. I think it is important for this forum to recognize when we are wrong, yet simply owning a mistake is not enough when serious allegations are made referencing a dealer such as Provident, then no explanation is offered.

 

[Provident Metals]

Many times, when customers have a problem with a company (whether perceived or real), they may be quick to overreact, if they feel they got the short end of the stick. This is why we've come up with policies and a framework, with which we are able to protect the interests of our customers as well as our own. Our policies include video taping every package that comes in or goes out of our facilities, as well as other proprietary means of identifying and locating products and packages. In this case, we were able to confirm that this package was shipped in its entirety to the customer. The customer called us upon receipt and stated that we didn't ship two 10 oz bars. Fortunately, we had HD video evidence of the packaging of the full order, which lead us to believe the missing silver bars were probably still in the discarded box. We asked that he check his packaging again being this is the #1 cause of mix-ups; simple misplacement of items while opening the package. Understandably, the customer was upset. And we can't blame him... If we thought a vendor was stiffing us for 20 ounces of silver, we wouldn't be very happy either. This is when he wrote his first post.

After a week, he wrote us back to let us know that he had found the bars; while dropping the packing peanuts into the garbage, two silver bars and the packing slip also fell into the trash can. It was an unfortunate mistake, and one that he owned up to, and for which he apologized profusely. This is a mistake that happens more often than you would think. It took a lot of courage to own up to his mistake, and extend a hand of fellowship, as well as apologize to us, for which we are greatly appreciative. We would hope that all our customers would give us feedback when we do something right, and especially when we do something wrong. We do stand up and take full responsibility when we have made a mistake in the past. Here at Provident Metals, we ALWAYS do our very best to be the People's Bullion Provider, and a large part of that is making sure we live up to our obligations of top notch customer service. In the end we're just glad PMDV found his silver and was pleased with our efforts in a tough situation.

Kind regards,
Provident Metals

 

[KMS]

Nice first post, Provident.

 

[h4rdware]

I have on at least one occasion chucked out packaging (with beans and newspaper) containing bits of the thing I had ordered, partly because I forgot exactly what I had ordered (usually electronic parts of some sort) and it had taken too long to arrive, and partly because the items were small and light enough to get lost in the packing stuff.

2x 10oz bars is a good portion of a Kilo, which is quite a lot of mass to confuse with packing - I salute the guy for owning up to such a mistake

Maybe it was that special tunnel vision you get when focusing way too much on one thing with strong expectations (in this case, ripping open a box to get at PMs), oblivious to seemingly obvious facts. Like 'don't throw boxes away until searched'. My biggest and best blunders were achieved in this sort of state.

Still, this one deserves 1st place in the PM blunder hall of fame IMO.

 

[rblong2us]

Thank you Provient

A completely rational explanation that fits all the facts.
Pity PMD victim didnt simply point out the cause of the misunderstanding.

And good to learn how much trouble you go to to ensure your side of the deal is fully honoured.

All yr used packaging rblong2us (-:

 

[h4rdware]

Hehe rb2 - maybe the ex-packaging recycling business has hidden benefits

 

[white&yellow999]

I just don't see how before someone accuses someone of ripping them off they don't dump out the entire box w/ packaging to double check. Thats a lot of metal and some harsh accusations to throw around w.o dumping out the entire contents of the package first.

 

[Island_Dweller]

I think this thread should be deleted. It serves no purpose and has a bad smell to it.

 

[pmbug]

To the contrary, I think it reflects a strong picture of professionalism for Provident Metals.

 

[PMD Victim]

Many times, when customers have a problem with a company (whether perceived or real), they may be quick to overreact, if they feel they got the short end of the stick. This is why we've come up with policies and a framework, with which we are able to protect the interests of our customers as well as our own. Our policies include video taping every package that comes in or goes out of our facilities, as well as other proprietary means of identifying and locating products and packages. In this case, we were able to confirm that this package was shipped in its entirety to the customer. The customer called us upon receipt and stated that we didn't ship two 10 oz bars. Fortunately, we had HD video evidence of the packaging of the full order, which lead us to believe the missing silver bars were probably still in the discarded box. We asked that he check his packaging again being this is the #1 cause of mix-ups; simple misplacement of items while opening the package. Understandably, the customer was upset. And we can't blame him... If we thought a vendor was stiffing us for 20 ounces of silver, we wouldn't be very happy either. This is when he wrote his first post.

After a week, he wrote us back to let us know that he had found the bars; while dropping the packing peanuts into the garbage, two silver bars and the packing slip also fell into the trash can. It was an unfortunate mistake, and one that he owned up to, and for which he apologized profusely. This is a mistake that happens more often than you would think. It took a lot of courage to own up to his mistake, and extend a hand of fellowship, as well as apologize to us, for which we are greatly appreciative. We would hope that all our customers would give us feedback when we do something right, and especially when we do something wrong. We do stand up and take full responsibility when we have made a mistake in the past. Here at Provident Metals, we ALWAYS do our very best to be the People's Bullion Provider, and a large part of that is making sure we live up to our obligations of top notch customer service. In the end we're just glad PMDV found his silver and was pleased with our efforts in a tough situation.

Kind regards,
Provident Metals

Provident Metals has been very professional and understanding in my case and gracefully accepted my apology. The error was MINE and I will do what is right and stand up and take my licks if necessary. I WILL continue to do business with them and hope to have a long and profitable relations with them in the future. They do seem to have the best prices and a huge selection.
Sincerely,
Dave Neal, formerly PM Victim (DUH!)

 

[rblong2us]

Respect to you Dave and good that it all ended well.

Reckon youve done Provident Metals some good by sharing the problem.

 

[PMD Victim]

I have on at least one occasion chucked out packaging (with beans and newspaper) containing bits of the thing I had ordered, partly because I forgot exactly what I had ordered (usually electronic parts of some sort) and it had taken too long to arrive, and partly because the items were small and light enough to get lost in the packing stuff.

2x 10oz bars is a good portion of a Kilo, which is quite a lot of mass to confuse with packing - I salute the guy for owning up to such a mistake

Maybe it was that special tunnel vision you get when focusing way too much on one thing with strong expectations (in this case, ripping open a box to get at PMs), oblivious to seemingly obvious facts. Like 'don't throw boxes away until searched'. My biggest and best blunders were achieved in this sort of state.

Still, this one deserves 1st place in the PM blunder hall of fame IMO.

Oh Keyriste! Here goes. I live in an OFF-GRID (4 miles from any power line of telephone line) house on 163 acres, at 9500 feet in the mountains of Colorado. Anyone who has been here understands... STATIC! Those foam peanuts will stick to your hand and you could try to throw a 90 mph fast ball and the damn things will still be clinging to your hand. Thus my effort to dump the crazy things in the trash without touching them. I rested the open box on the edge of the trash can under the island cook-top and tried my best to dump the pesky peanuts into the trash. That prevented me from feeling the weight of the 2 bars, in their envelope, along with the peanuts, as they left the box and feel into the trash can. Their weight was sufficient to make them fall to the BOTTOM of the trash can liner. When I found only three bars in the remaining envelope, I immediately went back to the trash but only found the light-weight peanuts. A few days later when I took the trash from the kitchen to the garage to place it in a larger trash can, I heard a very distinctive clunk as I sat the trash liner on the garage floor. Dug to the bottom of the trash can liner and there they were. Embarrassed, you bet. But ready to make things right. Now you know the story, satisfied?

 

[svfox]

If we can believe them.

I will be ordering from Provident soon and tell you if I get my silver. If Gold falls more I can get a gold coin.

Read other reviews Provident gets a high grade.

 

[ancona]

Thanks for clearing it up Dave.

 

[rblong2us]

sounds like a good setup Dave

what are you doing for power, comms and water?

and what do you do with the 163 acres at 9500 ft ?

 

[ancona]

I vote that we allow PMDVictim to change their name and start over fresh. However, I agree with Bug that this thread should stay.

 

[PMD Victim]

sounds like a good setup Dave

what are you doing for power, comms and water?

and what do you do with the 163 acres at 9500 ft ?

Set out to build a legacy house in a quiet, beautiful place where important conversation about life and death could be made without the insane distractions of the urban environment. The Big Adventure just went to far over budget and I'm wanting to retire. It's on the market, regrettably, but I'm ready to spend everyday with my incredible wife of 37 years. She and I built about 55% of this place and it has not been easy. Any of you guys out there have a woman that digs dirt, ties re bar, pours concrete, frames. does drywall, plumbing, electrical, cuts, hauls, splits and stacks firewood by the chord, the list goes on and on and she is beautiful... you are one of the few very blessed as I am. Had to spend a dime or two on comms equipment to draw a very weak signal, boost it and broadcast it throughout the house for phone. TV and computer are satellite. Power comes from a very nice Outback solar system with a 1k wind generator to trickle the batteries overnight in the short winter days. 12 KW Kohler propane generator for backup and reserve.system. Though I'd do some hunting but I lost the heart for it watching 5 young bull elk scratch through two feet of snow for a blade of grass to eat. Now I just thankful to enjoy seeing them. They are magnificent and powerful creatures. Tons of wildlife to enjoy, muleys out the wazoo, mountain lion, bobcats, golden eagles, you name it. Our place is named for a huge 600+ pound cinnamon bear. Look for The Cinnamon Bear Ranch online. Located in Guffey, CO. Beautiful, peaceful piece of heaven.

 

[rblong2us]

oh man thats all just so wrong
a great story with a rubbish ending

Is there no way you can downsize your ambitions and live in somewhat less than you had planned ?
You have both clearly put in all you had, physically, emotionally and financially.

I am amazed at how little space i actually need to live really well. The only thing i would improve, would be a source of heat in the workshop / toy cupboard.

Weve been indoctrinated into thinking we need 3000 sq ft of living space and all glass walls. We only need this to outdo our 'friendz' and keep the ponzi going ......


It may be that you could be a winner when everything gets reset and your few ounces of silver comes good. Then you could just watch the wildlife forever ....

Please dont give up on your dream !



http://www.landwatch.com/Park-County-Colorado-Farms-and-Ranches-for-sale/pid/204244450

f**k me Dave that is one beautiful house and location.

 

[ang]

Provident Metals Joe Merrick Jeremy Denny scamming

Provident Metals
PO Box 325
Lavon, TX 75166
Phone (877) 429-8790
Joe Merrick (31 years old)
Jeremy Denny (30 years old)
Neal Work

Provident Metals is operated by 30 years old owner, Joe Merrick with PO BOX address in Texas.

Their price quote is higher than market price, and does not reflect market price reflections which they refuse to explain.

You will see a lot of complaints against this company that it is actually scamming.

1. they charge false market loss fees when there is no market loss (never purchased)
2. they also charge false market loss ADMIN fees.
3. timing is great. they wait several months until gold price goes down, then demand/extort market loss/admin charges.
4. gold price fluctuate. their policy is to keep gains, but customer pays losses. so they wait several months to see gold price drops, then demand false market losses.

Someone needs to investigate these individuals and company with po box.

 

[pmbug]

Say what? Can you explain your allegations in English - slowly for the peanut gallery?

 

[provident metals scam]

Provident Metals Joe Merrick Jeremy Denny scamming

check out joshua merrick's mugshot in video
http://goo.gl/5H49M

Provident Metals Scam
Joshua Merrick MUGSHOT
31 M 01-07-2012 Stearns County, MN
http://goo.gl/6gWkU
http://goo.gl/5H49M

Mugshots Online JOSHUA MERRICK Saint Cloud Minnesota
Jan 7, 2012 – Charges. CRIM AGNST ADMN JUST-MS-OBST LEGAL PROCESS / OBSTRUCT LEGAL PROCESS-MS

Provident Precious Metals, LLC P.O. Box 325. Lavon, TX 75166
Provident Metals is operated by 30 years old owner, Joe Merrick with PO BOX address in Texas.
Their price quote is higher than market price, and does not reflect market price reflections which they refuse to explain.
You will see a lot of complaints against this company that it is actually scamming.
1. they charge false market loss fees when there is no market loss (never purchased)
2. they also charge false market loss ADMIN fees.
3. timing is great. they wait several months until gold price goes down, then demand/extort market loss/admin charges.
4. gold price fluctuate. their policy is to keep gains, but customer pays losses. so they wait several months to see gold price drops, then demand false market losses.





OK I talked to Joe again and he will consider giving you the $119 market loss if you will allow him to explain Provident's policy. He understands you might be frustrated if you somehow missed it, and that is the only reason he is considering it. What time are you free to talk to him?

Josh Merrick

Well, I talked to him and I think he is going to be sending you the $119. The only thing is he wants to explain what happened over the phone. Is that possible?

Josh Merrick
josh merrick

Provident Metals is operated by 30 years old owner, Joe Merrick with PO BOX address in Texas.
Their price quote is higher than market price, and does not reflect market price reflections which they refuse to explain.
You will see a lot of complaints against this company that it is actually scamming.
1. they charge false market loss fees when there is no market loss (never purchased)
2. they also charge false market loss ADMIN fees.
3. timing is great. they wait several months until gold price goes down, then demand/extort market loss/admin charges.
4. gold price fluctuate. their policy is to keep gains, but customer pays losses. so they wait several months to see gold price drops, then demand false market losses.

 

[benjamen]

Horray, we have been spammed by the same person using two different accounts!

Someone really has an axe to grind with Provident!
:soap:

 

[pmbug]

Horray, we have been spammed by the same person using two different accounts!
...

And "John Smith" is spamming the heck out of YouTube too. This is prettly lame IMO. If there is "scam", the fraud should be prosecuted in court. If there are unfair business practices (but not fraud), have the courage to explain clearly and completely what the issue is. All I see from here is some anonymous poseur in Chicago spamming the web with unintelligible accusations.

ang / "provident metals scam" / "John Smith" - if you can't defend your actions with a clear and full explanation, I'll be deleting your posts shortly.