Shanghai Gold Exchange (SGE and SFE) gold and silver

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Silver bars of raw material of the largest state-owned silver seller Zhaokuang on http://JD.com is now at a price of ¥6.98/gram today, equivalent to $30.15/ounce

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©Bai Xiaojun


$30/oz
raw silver should be of lower purity than lmba approved bars, i.e. lower price, i.e. under spot
$20?
that would be a 50% premium!
 
All time high
The hottest selling gold bars on http://JD.com which is the largest e-commmerce hit all time high at a price of ¥511/gram today, equivalent to $2207.48/ounce.
10 gram gold bar

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©Bai Xiaojun
 
That could be indicative of other things like import restrictions, international transportation issues (costs, insurance, etc.), liquidity, etc.

...or... maybe difficulty in sourcing physical in the west to send east....
The transportation costs should be covered by the premiums
The only viable explanation for me are import restrictions.
The problem is, a) I can't find any info about such restrictions, and b) they would make no sense.

Difficulty in sourcing the metal at spot prices, yes, possible too
 
...
The problem is, a) I can't find any info about such restrictions, and b) they would make no sense.
...
I remember back in September or so China was restricting imports and it caused a similar premium disparity. China, like India, tries to control gold imports. I think it has something to do with local money flow to foreign shores (affecting FX markets) or something.
 
I remember back in September or so China was restricting imports and it caused a similar premium disparity. China, like India, tries to control gold imports. I think it has something to do with local money flow to foreign shores (affecting FX markets) or something.
Possible, but I still don't understand,
limiting imports they are making Chinese PM manufacturers and end users very unhappy,
their plan was/is to increase national PM reserves - both public and private,
if they want to internationalise their Yuan, they should be happy about money outflows
 
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If left unlimited, gold imports would be so huge it would affect a large trade imbalance. India is also.closing loopholes on gold jewelry imports. I believe there is a 10% import tax on top of large premiums for gold.
 
If left unlimited, gold imports would be so huge it would affect a large trade imbalance. India is also.closing loopholes on gold jewelry imports. I believe there is a 10% import tax on top of large premiums for gold.
So, in order to blow up West's PM pricing mechanism all they need to do is to lift their import limitations.
 
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Mark my words when the LBMA and COMEX are emptied premiums will skyrocket. No physical supplier will sell at lower western spot prices when they can get more from Lee Bang Chow.
 
12.4% Chinese premium. How high can it go?
 
Talked to some people in China and this is what’s happening:

1) The Shanghai Gold futures at the Shanghai Futures Exchange (SHFE) is a paper market

2) Shanghai Gold Exchange (SGE) is physical Gold only market.

3) The Chinese are imposing transaction limits on the SHFE because they don’t want the paper Gold market dictating a speculative paper Gold price to the SGE physical Gold only market during a FOMO buying frenzy (of course the two prices are correlated).

4) This might push even more liquidity into the SGE physical Gold only market in the long run.

5) Meanwhile, Gold contracts volume should decrease at the SHFE.

 
The Shanghai Gold futures at the Shanghai Futures Exchange (SHFE) is a paper market

As long as they require shorts to show proof of having the metal - i.e. as long as they prevent naked shorting -, it's not
imo
 
Figured this would fit in this thread better than the commodities thread. FWIW (dyodd)

Shanghai Taking Charge of Gold and Silver Pricing. New York and London Control Rapidly Evaporating

May 20, 2024 #market #trading #derivatives


21:35
 
Why do US banks sell so many naked shorts in the market often at incredible losses?
 


pmbug said:
Whoa. I skimmed that link (translated to English with Google Translate and it sounds like much more than just "insurance funds invest in gold". It sounds like they insurance companies are authorized to set up gold trading desks like a bullion bank. They even have to become members of the SGE. If I understood correctly, they aren't allowed to take physical delivery (to store physical gold). It sounds like China wants more liquidity in the SGE system.

Bold emphasis is mine. English text is from Google Translate:
...
I. The PilotMain elements

SinceDate of publication of this noticeFrom,PilotInsurance companies can allocate assets for the purpose of medium- and long-term assets,Pilot investment in gold.

(i) Pilot investment in gold.Gold Spots listed or traded on the Main Board of the Shanghai Gold ExchangeDiscContracts, gold spot deferred settlement contracts, Shanghai gold centralized pricing contracts, gold inquiry spot contracts, gold inquiry swaps and gold leasing business.

(b) Pilot participants.China People's Property Insurance Co., Ltd., China Life Insurance Co., Ltd., Taiping Life Insurance Co., Ltd., China Export Credit Insurance Company, China Ping An Property Insurance Co., Ltd., China Ping An Life Insurance Co., Ltd., China Pacific Life Insurance Co., Ltd., Taikang Life Insurance Co., Ltd., Xinhua Life Insurance Co., Ltd.

II. Pilot investment requirements

(i) Strict decision-making procedures. Pilot Insurance Companies Invest in GoldIt shall be considered and approved by the Board of Directors,andEstablish clear responsibilities and clear authorizationDecision-making authority,Develop reasonable assets according to asset allocation and risk management requirementsGoldConfigurationand investmentsThe strategy.

(b) Equipped with qualified staff. Pilot insurance companies should set up investment research, transaction delivery, risk control compliance, clearing accounting and other positions, so thatFront, middle and back.Strict separation of staff and responsibilities. .Pilot insurance companies shouldEquipped withGold investmentsPeople who are compatible with the size of the businessAmong them,Investment research and transaction delivery positions should be at least equipped2 people who pass the national gold trading level examination, risk control compliance, clearing accounting and other positions should be equipped with at least one person who passed the national gold trading level examination.

(C) the establishment of investment management system. Pilot insurance companies shouldEstablish a gold investment management system, including but not limited to authorized management, investment decision-making, research and analysis, transaction delivery, clearing accounting, information systems, internal control, risk management, related-party transactions, etc.. .

(D) improve the information management system. Pilot insurance companies should invest in gold by becoming members of the Shanghai Gold Exchange.Establish an information technology system that meets the technical operation specifications of the Shanghai Gold Exchange, through commercial banksAgentSeating is carried outWhere gold is invested, it should do a good job in docking with the system and accounts of commercial banks.Meet investment trading, accounting and risk management needs.

(5) Adhere to the concept of prudent investment.Pilot insurance companiesInvestment gold should be flexible to use large transactions, inquiry transactions, bidding transactions and other means.StagedCategory: BatchConstructionAvoid the impact on the market due to abnormal trading behavior.Pilot Insurance Companies Invest in GoldMonetary funds should be used, and the physical export and storage of gold shall not be handled.

(vi)Pilot Insurance Companies InvestmentsGold Spot Delayed Settlement ContractIt should be for the purpose of risk management or asset allocation to reasonably control the scale of business and prohibit the use of speculative arbitrage.. .

(vii)Pilot Insurance Companies InvestmentsGold Inquiries and Swap Contracts,Counterparty shall be limited to financial institutions, andmanagement of credit lines,PracticalPrevention of credit risk.Pilot insurance companies should strictly control the scale of swap business financing, integrate funds to prohibit investment in high-risk and liquid assets, and the short net exposure of the far end of the swap business should be lower than the gold spot assets held by the insurance company at any point.

(viii)Pilot insurance companies to carry out gold leasing business, counterparties should be limited to financial institutions, and reasonable control of counterparty concentration, single counterparty leasing scale shall not exceed the pilot insurance company holding gold spot contracts.20%.
...

More (it's in Chinese - I had to use Google Translate):
https://www.nfra.gov.cn/cn/view/pages/governmentDetail.html?docId=1198119&itemId=861&generaltype=1
 
That sounds like they are moving away from using Debt (ie US Treasuries) as the main holdings and moving to Gold. I guess people are forgetting that Gold doesn't pay interest.
 
That sounds like they are moving away from using Debt (ie US Treasuries) as the main holdings and moving to Gold. I guess people are forgetting that Gold doesn't pay interest.
Not yet, but if you lease.it maybe it could? That would.mean gold's velocity would increase.
 
Vince Lanci said:
China insurance companies permitted to own gold and taking a steak in the gold exchange which will hold that gold is a secular investment change. With ramifications globally.

It’s more important to the future price of gold than the movement of gold from one vault to another.

It’s a further liberalization of gold ownership by China to its people. And they’re doing it in the form of financial products tied to physical gold. And in doing that every Chinese 401(k) is gonna have gold in it one way or another. And because of that any investment company in the world that wants to do business in China will have to offer competing products. And it will spread outward continuously from Beijing.

 
Via Google Translate (bold emphasis is mine):
According to the China Insurance Asset Management Association, the holding of gold in insurance may reach 208 tons to 555 tons, accounting for less than 2% of the total global gold demand. This is positive for the insurance industry and the Chinese gold market.
...
China Ping An (601318. SH, 2318. HK), a subsidiary of Ping An Life, completed the first Shanghai gold pricing transaction of domestic insurance institutions on the Shanghai Gold Exchange; China Life (601628. SH, 2628. HK) on the Shanghai Gold Exchange, completed the first gold inquiry transaction of domestic insurance institutions; China National Insurance (601319. SH, 1339. HK) subsidiary People's Insurance Company completed the first gold bidding transaction in the domestic insurance industry through the Shanghai Gold Exchange system.

  The landing of the above transactions marks that the long-awaited insurance funds have gone from planning to reality. Ping An Life said that it attaches great importance to this historical opportunity and will actively study the investment allocation planning of the gold business to optimize the asset allocation structure and improve the efficiency of the use of funds. In terms of allocation planning, from the perspective of diversifying investment risk and optimizing the portfolio structure, gold is included in the annual and medium- and long-term strategic asset allocation plan; China Life said that it will adhere to the long-term investment concept in the future, adhere to a sound and prudent investment style, give full play to the unique allocation value of gold in optimizing the portfolio, hedging risk, and resisting inflation, and further improve the long-term risk-return ratio of the company's overall portfolio; the latest said that gold as an important risk-free asset, and the asset-risk-to-value-to-value-to-value.

  On February 7, the insurance funds investment gold business pilot "set sail", a total of 10 pilot insurance companies, respectively, people's insurance, China Life, Taiping Life, China Credit Insurance, Ping An Life Insurance, Ping An Life, Taibao Property Insurance, Tai Life Insurance, Taikang Life, New Chinese Life. In addition to the above three insurance institutions, as of the press release, other insurance institutions have not yet disclosed relevant information.

  On March 24, the Shanghai Gold Exchange announced that after consideration, it was agreed to absorb people's insurance, China Life, Ping An Life, and Tai Life Insurance to become members of the Shanghai Gold Exchange.

  According to the "Gold Investment in Insurance Asks" released by the World Gold Council at the end of last year, insurance funds may become important marginal pricemers in the gold market, but the overall balance of global gold supply and demand has been controllable. Wang Lixin, CEO of the World Gold Council in China, said that the pilot gold business of insurance capital is mainly to open up a new demand side for gold, and may also be one of the trading parties in the future, which is of positive significance to the Chinese insurance industry and the Chinese gold market.

  It is worth noting that after the entry of insurance, will it affect the price of gold?According to the China Insurance Asset Management Association (hereinafter referred to as the "China Insurance Asset Management Association"), in the medium and long term, the holding of insurance gold may reach 208 tons to 555 tons, and the marginal impact of the annual increase in gold spot demand brought about by the new gold allocation demand under the smooth allocation of insurance funds is controllable, accounting for the proportion of total global gold demand within 2%. In the short term, gold has strong financial attributes, and the news of the entry of insurance funds may have a certain impact on the price of gold.

  “One of the goals of this round of piloting may be to increase the gold pricing power in China’s capital market with insurance funds, similar to the central bank’s gold purchase logic.” CITIC Securities Research Report analysis said that the impact of insurance funds on gold prices is similar to that of central bank purchases. The gold allocation of central banks and insurance funds is a long-term behavior, and both tend to be low-key and slow to buy in purchases to avoid short-term price shocks. In addition, both central banks and insurance funds can affect market prices by increasing demand and forming a declaration effect.
...
On February 7, the General Administration of Financial Supervision issued the "Notice on Piloting the Investment of Insurance Funds in Gold Business" (hereinafter referred to as the "Notice"), the scope of the pilot investment gold includes: gold spot real contracts listed or traded on the main board of the Shanghai Gold Exchange, gold spot deferred settlement contracts, Shanghai gold centralized pricing contracts, gold inquiry spot contracts, gold inquiry swaps and gold leasing business.

In the specific pilot investment gold operation, the above-mentioned "Notice" requires that the pilot insurance company's investment in gold should be flexible to use bulk transactions, inquiry transactions, bidding transactions and other methods to build positions in batches to avoid the impact on the market due to abnormal trading behavior. Pilot insurance companies should use monetary funds to invest in gold, and shall not handle the physical out and storage of gold. At the same time, the pilot insurance company should strictly implement the investment ratio requirement, and the total investment gold book balance does not exceed 1% of the company's total assets at the end of the previous quarter.
...
Wang Lixin said that as of the end of the fourth quarter of 2024, the total assets of China's insurance industry as a whole reached about 35.9 trillion yuan. If 1% of the industry’s total assets are invested in gold, the potential increase in gold demand could reach 528 tonnes. Now the first batch of 10 insurance companies allowed to participate in the pilot program has a total assets of about 57% of the total assets of China's insurance industry, about 20.1 trillion yuan. If these companies invest 1% of their total assets in gold, the potential demand for gold in the coming year is about 295 tons.‌
...

 
Chinesre insurers would be able.to sell gold backed.meme.coins, then close down and skate with the gold.
 
Chinesre insurers would be able.to sell gold backed.meme.coins, then close down and skate with the gold.
That's not possible, either they are meme coins, i.e. not backed by real gold, hence there would be no skating with the gold, or they are legit currencies backed by real gold, allowing the skating.
So, which kind of scam are we talking about here.
 
That's not possible, either they are meme coins, i.e. not backed by real gold, hence there would be no skating with the gold, or they are legit currencies backed by real gold, allowing the skating.
So, which kind of scam are we talking about here.
I hear ya... but gold is gold and notgold is not gold. So it is just a word or a title for another bitcoin?

It leads this ole hoss to the word "Notgeld" <-- :unsure:
 
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