That's it...I'm done with Gold and Silver

Barrettone said:

Man you sure know how to paint a picture. My family is 6 people though, and two are 300 lbs (ex football linemen)...an 8 seater would prolly have just enough payload. Maybe could talk a couple of my sons into getting their licenses too and just buy 3 single engines...lol

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Bad idea: For the price of NOT getting that old turbo, you could send each and every one of your six family members through the Pilot's License program, and buy EACH ONE a totally sexy Piper Warrior... And have half a million dollars left over.

Funny sentence, true $$ comparison. Agin: There It Is.

Let's talk about sex and scuba: There are times when flying matches them. Not hyperbole.

And tell the 300-pounders** how much fun it is to fly. I am a purty big guy (weighed 250# when I flew). Close enuf fer understanding. Just too much fun to miss with only one lifetime.

**I betcha at least one of them has a fargin pickup truck. He could trade it in, pay for the flight training, and buy a Piper Warrior. With some $$ left over.
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O jeebus!! I nearly forgot to point out sumpin' very important:

Note the year of manufacture for these used planes. They're 40+ years old and COMMAND THESE PRICES. Do a comparison to any same date run-of-the-mill automobile. <-- Junkers, all.

You know why these beautiful, still equal-to-new planes are on the market?

AGE. Not the planes, the fargin OWNERS of the planes. The investment in a small plane outlives the investor. Lookit me. 82 is just not feasible any longer to be the pilot. But the Piper Warrior I flew for years... is still flying! And worth $$

Can they say that about their 1979 Ford pickup trucks?

Unca Walt said:

Can they say that about their 1979 Ford pickup trucks?

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Actually they can, Walt.

You should look at the prices 1970s Ford and Chevrolet trucks are selling for. A nice one (as nice on the surface as that plane) will sell for over $25k now. A rusted one that's still serviceable, will sell for better than $12k.

Those things are HOT. I had been watching the prices, hoping for a "work truck." Simple, basic engine, capable of work, don't have to worry about body dings.

Those don't exist anymore. People WANT the old trucks, because, among other reasons, they didn't have to comply with goofy government standards. You could get a tough engine and a manual transmission in them - two things missing, now.

As to the plane: Interesting, and tempting (as a thought exercise; I'm out of the picture as I'm diabetic). But the overhead in keeping/storing the plane, makes it a bit more costly.

Finally, we don't know what the infrastructure will look like in ten years. A plane without airports or air-traffic control; or with the government taken over by third-world goons who forbid private flight...that plane will have neither value nor purpose.

Unca Walt said:

Bad idea: For the price of NOT getting that old turbo, you could send each and every one of your six family members through the Pilot's License program, and buy EACH ONE a totally sexy Piper Warrior... And have half a million dollars left over.

Funny sentence, true $$ comparison. Agin: There It Is.

Let's talk about sex and scuba: There are times when flying matches them. Not hyperbole.

And tell the 300-pounders** how much fun it is to fly. I am a purty big guy (weighed 250# when I flew). Close enuf fer understanding. Just too much fun to miss with only one lifetime.

**I betcha at least one of them has a fargin pickup truck. He could trade it in, pay for the flight training, and buy a Piper Warrior. With some $$ left over.
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O jeebus!! I nearly forgot to point out sumpin' very important:

Note the year of manufacture for these used planes. They're 40+ years old and COMMAND THESE PRICES. Do a comparison to any same date run-of-the-mill automobile. <-- Junkers, all.

You know why these beautiful, still equal-to-new planes are on the market?

AGE. Not the planes, the fargin OWNERS of the planes. The investment in a small plane outlives the investor. Lookit me. 82 is just not feasible any longer to be the pilot. But the Piper Warrior I flew for years... is still flying! And worth $$

Can they say that about their 1979 Ford pickup trucks?

Click to expand...

I mentioned exactly what you said...buying multiple single engines and getting multiple licenses. I see your point. It's the upkeep on multiple planes that worries me.

Casey Jones said:

Actually they can, Walt.

You should look at the prices 1970s Ford and Chevrolet trucks are selling for. A nice one (as nice on the surface as that plane) will sell for over $25k now. A rusted one that's still serviceable, will sell for better than $12k.

Those things are HOT. I had been watching the prices, hoping for a "work truck." Simple, basic engine, capable of work, don't have to worry about body dings.

Those don't exist anymore. People WANT the old trucks, because, among other reasons, they didn't have to comply with goofy government standards. You could get a tough engine and a manual transmission in them - two things missing, now.

As to the plane: Interesting, and tempting (as a thought exercise; I'm out of the picture as I'm diabetic). But the overhead in keeping/storing the plane, makes it a bit more costly.

Finally, we don't know what the infrastructure will look like in ten years. A plane without airports or air-traffic control; or with the government taken over by third-world goons who forbid private flight...that plane will have neither value nor purpose.

Click to expand...

I see your point. I'm just figuring out what's next for me to invest in. Functionality is important if it's not PMs. Just trying to figure out where to park excess $$$ as I don't want to get left holding too large of a bag or take on too many legacy costs (eg taxes, maintenance, etc).

Casey Jones said:

You should look at the prices 1970s Ford and Chevrolet trucks are selling for. A nice one (as nice on the surface as that plane) will sell for over $25k now.

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I looked at one yesterday. A 64 chevy C10 S/B in turquoise blue for $28,000.

That's actually not much use as a work vehicle, or daily-use transportation.

Oh, it would do it, okay. But you don't take an antique car to work in a snowstorm. No matter how badly you need to get there.

That's a display rig. Parades, and Sunday drives.

Casey Jones said:

That's actually not much use as a work vehicle, or daily-use transportation.

Oh, it would do it, okay. But you don't take an antique car to work in a snowstorm. No matter how badly you need to get there.

That's a display rig. Parades, and Sunday drives.

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Precisely. The public numbers I posted were for USED VEHICLES. They were not representative of powder blue pickups that were never used as pickups.

Show trucks are a totally separate animal, and I figured I would not have to be so granular as to have to point out the obvious.

The planes for sale -- Go LOOK anywhere at the variety and the condition of the AVERAGE "vehicle". Be it a pickup, a Pontiac, or a Plymouth. Compare it to... NOT the "show" truck princesses, but the whole fargin gamut of what is for sale in the small aircraft world.

100:1 difference.

Actually, the above is not correct. It is greater than 100:1 for condition and value retention. Go to ANY huge used-car monster parking lot and look at every car/truck for sale. Find any made in 1979 or so on that used car lot. Pick out the median. You know you will find this:



Oh... wait... those are NEWER than 1979, aren't they. But they ARE the average condition for pickups of that age... aren't they. Do not go to museums for your samples.

Anyway... It is not terribly expensive to own a small plane. There are costs, of course -- but not when you consider that the trucks pictured above were replacements for replacements -- that need replacement again (40 years of use = how many new trucks?). And if you bought a usable, functioning, second- or third-hand truck that is 40 years old... would it look like it was even from the same planet as an average small plane of the same age?

Nope.

When you get a small plane, you will get piston compression numbers for each cylinder. You will KNOW that there are no hidden rotted out floors, etc. because instead of just letting planned obsolescence take its toll, each and every plane is rigidly maintained inside and out. All of them. That is one of the "costs". <-- And that "cost" eliminates the ridiculous depreciation of used cars/trucks. That cost just evaporates when compared to the cost of total multiple replacements at five-year intervals.

Every one of the planes you see advertised is the equivalent of that powder blue garage queen. Every one. Not special ones, but all of them.

Nuff said, but I hope we do not get mixed up again.

One other teeny thing: There are no traffic jams for small planes. You need not follow roads around things... just fly over them and save time and money. Short cuts a specialty.

And now we come to where yer ole Unca is jealous as hell:

There is ONE GUY that has the ultimate (at least he did last time I was down in the Keys) -- The dude has his small plane hangared in his garage. The garage faces the private landing strip used by the owners who have houses on said strip.

This is the Tavernaero Air Strip on Plantation Key. (I weep snot.)

Where it gets just too much for me to handle is this guy's situation:

On one side of his house is the airstrip. On the other side of his house is the deep water canal with his huge boat. On the third side, his access road for his car. Lovely lawn. Sooper posh neighborhood. 99% of the people who go to the Floriduh Keys are totally unaware of the existence this airstrip.

There can only be one house like that. Some day I am going to meet the guy and shoot him. Or kiss his shoes, dunno which.

If you click on this link, you can watch a takeoff from his house. Beautiful beyond words. Car, boat, plane, house. Private strip.
https://tavernaero.com/

I would give my left nut and a year in hell for that setup.

Looks dangerous to me, walter. You really want a 120 MPH street in your back yard?

Unca Walt said:

And now we come to where yer ole Unca is jealous as hell:

There is ONE GUY that has the ultimate (at least he did last time I was down in the Keys) -- The dude has his small plane hangared in his garage. The garage faces the private landing strip used by the owners who have houses on said strip.

This is the Tavernaero Air Strip on Plantation Key. (I weep snot.)

Where it gets just too much for me to handle is this guy's situation:

On one side of his house is the airstrip. On the other side of his house is the deep water canal with his huge boat. On the third side, his access road for his car. Lovely lawn. Sooper posh neighborhood. 99% of the people who go to the Floriduh Keys are totally unaware of the existence this airstrip.

There can only be one house like that. Some day I am going to meet the guy and shoot him. Or kiss his shoes, dunno which.

If you click on this link, you can watch a takeoff from his house. Beautiful beyond words. Car, boat, plane, house. Private strip.
https://tavernaero.com/

I would give my left nut and a year in hell for that setup.

Click to expand...

Not too much lawn to mow in that set-up.

We'll, my PD/PT idea got crushed today. $2400-2500/oz for PD eagles at my local coin show. Farkin 30% premium. Maples on APMEX are still $2200 (15%). PT was going for $1200-$1250...APMEX is $1100...just nutz. Well, it's looking like an old restored truck or a plane and a pilots license I guess. I ain't payin that kind of premiumzzzzz. F that.

Get a boat that will make it to the Bahamas or Dominican Republic.

Barrettone said:

We'll, my PD/PT idea got crushed today. $2400-2500/oz for PD eagles at my local coin show. Farkin 30% premium. Maples on APMEX are still $2200 (15%). PT was going for $1200-$1250...APMEX is $1100...just nutz. Well, it's looking like an old restored truck or a plane and a pilots license I guess. I ain't payin that kind of premiumzzzzz. F that.

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I don't look at it as premiums. I look at it as the real price. Either get it now or pay more later. If you can even get it in the future.

Imagine if the dollar shows signs of collapse to the general population. What do you think will happen then?

BeefJerky said:

Imagine if the dollar shows signs of collapse to the general population. What do you think will happen then?

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They won't know it until they find that all their Helicopter Money, won't buy anything.

They'll be the LAST to know it. Long after the butcher, the baker, the credit-card maker, all know it...and refuse payment in FRNs. Or charge usurious surcharges for FRN payment.

I don't expect the "general population" will really understand things have changed, until their bellies are growling.

Goldbrix said:

Not too much lawn to mow in that set-up.

Click to expand...

Y'ain't lookin' attit right. His (huge!) house is the last one on the right. The end of the canal is across the street at the end of the runway that you are lookin' back at. That's where his yacht is (he does have to walk across the pavement to step into it.) The street right there goes directly to US1. His lawn/street are on the right (unseen) side of his house. It ain't even cheatin' fair.

Fargin bastage prolly keeps both his Ferraris and his Maseratis in tha garage on that side.

Trivia: I din' even know of the existence of the airplane patch until I flew over it one day in a plane I rented in Marathon. Liked to make me fall out of the seat. Can you just conceive of the price that place would command? The ONLY one in Florida like that. Or in the fargin world, probably.

Here's an aerial view taken during a dry spell, unlike the takeoff vid.

https://earth.google.com/web/search/Tavernaero+Park,+North+Airport+Road,+Tavernier,+FL/@25.00302755

Bottom Feeder said:

Looks dangerous to me, walter. You really want a 120 MPH street in your back yard?

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Umm... the landing speed of the planes that use that runway is 43MPH. So... no, I do not want a Lear Jet landing in my back yard.

Takeoff speed (best climbing speed) is 67MPH.

The folks in cars are going far, far faster than that face-to-face with oncoming traffic on the 7-mile bridge with a narrower road surface. Which is more dangerous? 1000:1 or so, by history.

There is a kewl thing they have built in to their private airplane patch: You call in (in the blind) as you approach the landing strip. Key your mike five times. <-- This will turn pedestrian warning lights on all along the runway warning folks to get the hell offa my lawn. When you land -- at a nice, slow speed... you key your mike seven times, and the lights will turn off.

Kewl, ainnit? And while folks get massacreed weekly on 7-mile, no one has ever had even a mere "bimp" at the airplane patch.

Now cut the booshit and go get a fargin small plane.

Being born in 1940 does have that one drawback... it is too late for yer Unca to keep toodling about, playing "fly with only one wing in that cloud" games, and "lookit the giant fishie swirls in the ocean below watching"... (*sigh*)

I weep snot. I miss it. I would wish the joy of flying on you. Your comparison:

You are (masked) in a smelly, unsanitary, jammed-full bus or subway car next to a puking baby. <-- This is commercial flight.

You are in your own Corvette Sting Ray on a road with a fantastic view in every direction <-- This is small plane piloting.

Oh... and you NEVER get felt up by a fat Brazilian TSA wearing dirty gloves, and X-rayed or probed.

Unca Walt said:

I don't have gazillions of fiat that I dunno what to do with, <envy> but may I suggest another form of easily-acquired-at-sane-premium coinage: Copper pennies. Your LCD can get you all you want. Fungible worldwide. Makes change for ALL sales.

Easily stored (the weight can be useful, if ya deeply thinks onnit). Never stolen. <-- At least I have never heard of a case.

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Agree, I prospect for all pre '82s. I leave the half year of '82 coppers for the newbies and rookies to find. In early September I scored two Wheaties out of a CoinStar Reject Bin with about $1.27 in spendable.
Unfortunately, I find folks are getting wise to the Reject Bins in coin machines. Pickin's are getting slimmer around here anyway.

Goldbrix said:

Agree, I prospect for all pre '82s. I leave the half year of '82 coppers for the newbies and rookies to find. In early September I scored two Wheaties out of a CoinStar Reject Bin with about $1.27 in spendable.
Unfortunately, I find folks are getting wise to the Reject Bins in coin machines. Pickin's are getting slimmer around here anyway.

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EEK. I din' mean that. Let sumbody else look through ten million pennies. They are cheap-cheap to buy at any online outfit or LCD. You gettem by the big ole bag... delivered to your front door.

Unca Walt said:

EEK. I din' mean that. Let sumbody else look through ten million pennies. They are cheap-cheap to buy at any online outfit or LCD. You gettem by the big ole bag... delivered to your front door.

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I get 'em free in my change. It is at a point that I can spot / tell the difference between coppers v clads visually. Doubters go into the left empty pants/jeans pocket for review at home or good light.

I'm still talkin' AND along with pocket change amusement.
5000 Unsearched** for $129.

**You can go zoomie with yer search hobby by going through 5000 coppers looking for dates/mints.

Unca Walt said:

I'm still talkin' AND along with pocket change amusement.
View attachment 2433 5000 Unsearched** for $129.

**You can go zoomie with yer search hobby by going through 5000 coppers looking for dates/mints.

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I enjoy my "Speed of Turtle style" of prospecting but thanx for the info. I bet shipping costs are a killer.

Ain't pushin' whutcha don't want, but you gotta know the facts:

"APMEX offers free shipping to our customers when you spend over $199†. We have no minimum order requirement; however, orders under $199 will be charged a shipping fee of $9.95."

Buy TWO bags, and have a new hobby becuz you now have 10,000 unsearched** copper pennies to look through... that you got for FREE SHIPPING (thanks to yer Unca's info).

** HAS to be a coupla hits in there.

So, For $100.00 of coppers folks are paying $258.00 ?
And folks think silver premiums are high.

Let's talk about sex and scuba: There are times when flying matches them. Not hyperbole.

Click to expand...

I settled for flying scuba sex. I still have the scars!

Goldbrix said:

So, For $100.00 of coppers folks are paying $258.00 ?
And folks think silver premiums are high.

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Yeah... and when you find that 1943 copper and the 1909svdb cent in your sack... Fun hobby.

But everybody pleaz lissen up:

I am talking a kewl way to enjoy a hobby.

Now, if your universal requirement is that your hobby "parts" must be without cost... well, then ya got me.

I'm "Thick Headed" if "Hobby" is not mentioned than I don't even figure it as an option.
My hobby is turning as much fiat into PMs as possible.

Interesting thread. Bump.