Vault services

looking into some online ways to invest in pms without the negatives associated w the gld or slv of the world. anyone ever use bullion vault? i learned about it through a podcast w chris martenson. trying to find easier way to own silver. the sprott physical trust trades at a huge premium right now so not appealing. any thoughts would be appreciated.

thanks

I would vote for GoldMoney as the 2nd best to keeping it somewhere close at hand.

BullionVault 3rd, because it's a bit more involved (internal market orders - fun but probably more than most people care about) and you can't withdraw physical gold in denominations smaller than 400oz bars, if you suddenly decided it was preferable to liquidating as currency. Only 'big players' would be able to make it through the exit, smaller ones would presumably have to accept cash (albeit, in one of several choices of currency).

GoldMoney will send you metal, however small the amount, if you pay the delivery fees (not that I'm suggesting it's cheap - although it may be, I haven't looked in a while).

GoldMoney was also honesty-tested when the Dutch government forced accounts in that country to be closed out. GM sent *metal* to the account holders. I take that as a good sign more than anything else.

http://www.sovereignman.com/expat/gold-confiscation/

GM storage and trading fees are a little higher than BV in general but I still prefer it for a bunch of small (but cumulative) reasons.

I am not terribly keen on trusts etc. at the moment - not because they are suspect (especially Sprott's - which is one of the best) - but because the brokers/middlemen are not all trustworthy and I suspect some are going to implode along with their intermingled, loaned-for-shorting, non-segregated (etc. insert 'accident' of choice here) customer holdings.

thanks for the input. the thin i didnt like about goldmomey was they take their fees out of your gold. i dont kow if the bullion vault does the same, i didnt get that impression from reading the website. personally i want to pay my bills in dollars and save my gold. its great for the owners of goldmoney but i dont want my gold constantly decreaing over time. as gold rises the implied fees will have been much more significant. its kinda like paying mgmt of a underalued company in stock. the greater the undervaluation to intrinsic value the more you are paying them.

A very good point - one I forgot to mention. GM does take fees in goldgrams etc. currently it amounts to a bit more than BV and IIRC it gets worse if you use several vaults at once.

Again this can be a good or bad thing. It's good that they value the metal enough to take their fees in it - they believe in what they are doing. It's not so good that the fees will effecively rise as the metal does (and for smaller investors in silver this might cap their holdings after a while due to fees eroding the stack).

BV takes its storage fees in currency, and from small buy/sell transaction fees. There is also a buy/sell spread depending on the market at the time. If you trade in some volume the fees drop into lower pricing brackets for the remainder of the year. I think the brackets were 0.8% per trade (so thats 1.6% to sell and buy back, before spread) until you trade $30,000, then drops to 0.4%, 0.2% etc... something like that. It's very accommodating for those who like to trade frequently.

In general I'd recommend GM for more longterm international stacking. BV for a more active arrangement - trading in the physical metal without intermediates.

I would simply buy the largest, heaviest gun safe I could and put it in the basement.
Funny, in a morbid sort of way - there have been some attempts to steal these around here, perhaps 2-3 in the 3 city area in the last couple of years. None were successful. In one case, one of the perps was found dead under a safe they'd managed to tip over. In another, a severed hand was found under a toppled safe.

No one has managed to get into one yet, that I've heard - they try to take them home for that, but fail at step one.

Evidently, the criminal mind doesn't plan as well (and isn't as well-equipped) as the guys who deliver and install these things. Many are reasonably fire proof to boot, and of course, can hold guns, too.

Indeed - if you have the means (basement, security, an immovable box - or anything approximating them) then it is by far the best way.

will do some more research on GM and BV and report back. the problem with a large amount at home is if someome has a gun to your head the size of the safe doesnt really matter at that pt.

seems like all methods have their pros and cons. also having physical all in one place make you very immobile. i like to travel, staying in one place isnt an option for me.

probably a combination of all is the best diversification.

anyone know how tight the buy sell spreads are on bv when you make the trades?

Well, if it gets to the point of someone having a gun to my head, a bunch of other failures in my security have happened already:shrug:. And of course, if they shoot me, they ain't gettin in anyway. So little of that is rational (but that's no protection against someone not-rational).

And of course, like the famous movie line - their aim might not be so poor as to aim at you, but rather someone else you'd not willingly sacrifice.

But yeah, more than one place seems wise, fer sure. And of course, no bragging...

Maybe I'm kind of insecure, but if I didn't have a place of my own and some security, I'd get that squared before I bothered with stacking at all, but that's me. After all, what would you buy with the gold when times get "hard"? Why wait?

But easier for me to say, since I've already cut the cord with that whole wage-slave-live-in-apt way of life, long since. My guess is that it's easier to do when everyone else isn't trying to at the same time...it's hard enough that all too many justify not doing it, picking up pennies in front of a steamroller till the end. Hope you don't slip!

The other stuff seems suspiciously like paper to me, personally. It's just a promise to give your gold back from some other entity, on paper, right?
Same as GLD then, in most important regards, legally? So if the system fails, so does that? How would they ship it to you even if they wanted to, if transport is going down along with the rest?

even if you are settled down, you never plan to take a vacation. at some pt you will not be at home. 10 armed men with assualt rifles are gonna be hard to stop. yes that happens in other countries.

guess every metod has its issues. i will report any new info on GM and BV. found this comparision:

http://www.goldinmind.com/how-to-buy-gold/reviews-ratings/bullionvault-vs-goldmoney-review.html

i have searched the message boards on the net to gather some scuttlebut. sounds like both are legit places. sounds like tis BV has a better platform especially if you are an actice trader. i dont plane to trade a ton but the concern i saw w GM was the restrictions on the trading. if i ea it correctly you have to place the orders before 930 and 630 am for gold and silver to confirm a price and also they can only confirm a price for 2000 gold grams and 2000 oz of silver. while that a decent amount i thought those max trades for a confirmed price seemed very low. that ike 60k for each metal at current prices roughly. seemed odd for a modern automated system to have such a low threshold. they both also openly say they can adjust the terms at any moment so in times of stress it may be even more restrictive. BV adveritises you can trade 24/7/365. you cannot do this on gm. so tis seems like a big draw for bv.

appears nothing is perfect but i want to avoid the trap of becoming paralized and not doing any of them just because they are not perfect.

there are some good threads on the kitco forums discussing the options. also seems like GM is backed by james turk and sprott which people like becuase they seem ike stand up guys.

Any good quality safe is designed to be bolted to the floor. A heavy, fireproof safe bolted to the concrete floor in your basement is about as good as you can do (for those who have basements).

I can't speak from experience, but from looking at safes I think that http://www.brownsafe.com/ and http://www.graffundersafes.com/ are the best out there. Just $.02 from an engineer with an internet connection.

BTW, for the Brown safes, they do a lot of custom/designer type of work, but they do make plain-jane models that don't have all the exotic wood trim and such. Clearly one of their customers reads PMbug.com (see pics 28 & 29) http://www.brownsafe.com/gallery/GemSeries/Gem_Gallery.html:clap:

@escobar - maybe GM put the limit in place to ensure they could fulfill the orders with available physical metal from their customers / suppliers. I would be suspicious it they allowed unlimited order sizes and claimed they could deliver physical on demand.

@ddmb - I copied your post to a new thread dedicated to the topic of safes. I think it's deserving of it's own thread and hope to keep this thread on topic.

yeqh i hear you but how are places like tulving able to offer confirmed sales for any amount? if they can do it why cant gm do it?

curious about people thoughts on the sprott physical trusts? the silver one trades at a 16% premium now so that seems out of the question but te gold one is only at 4% and if u catch it on a good day could be close to 1%. curious if peopke think this is as good as gm or bv? sure is a lot simpler. in some ways it seems safer to me. y can still take delivery if you want.

i wish tha sprott would raise a ton more for the silver trust but he seems to be saying he doesnt want to damage the premium on the silver trust. doesnt make sense to me. it only trades at a premm becuase here is so much demand. seems like an easy business decision.

escobar said:

yeqh i hear you but how are places like tulving able to offer confirmed sales for any amount? if they can do it why cant gm do it?

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Different business model. Tulving buys a ton of metal which they store in their warehouse/vault and sell to the public. 100% of their inventory is dedicated to public sale. GM/BV buy metal and store in their vaults and sell to the public, but most of it remains in their vaults after sale. Only a percentage of the metal in their vaults is available for sale.

escobar said:

curious about people thoughts on the sprott physical trusts? ... i wish tha sprott would raise a ton more for the silver trust but he seems to be saying he doesnt want to damage the premium on the silver trust. doesnt make sense to me. ...

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My interpretation of Sprott's comments in the KWN interview is that he will buy more silver depending upon new investment into the trust. Ie. if the premium rises, he will buy silver.

I need to call GM Monday to ask some questions. The thing I still dont understand is who is buying and selling the gold? in BV it is mostly between the clients and sometimes the bots from the company step in. But with GM are they constantly buying and selling from you? What happens if a lot of people are selling do they have the balance sheet to buy?

Found this interesting article talking about the sprott gold trust. assume the same issues apply to the silver one as well. Basically the tax effects of some of the trading vehicles can be bad sometimes.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/191...-not-really-a-gold-etf-and-a-bad-deal-to-boot

I noticed this BullionVault mentioned that there may be a 20% VAT tax on any silver sales or withdraw. Is this the case only for UK users? does this apply to GoldMoney as well. This seems punitive to the pt of making it no economical to use.

thanks any feedback.

BV/GM do not themselves charge tax on withdrawals - the VAT on silver is a UK taxpayer thing and affects all forms of silver. It does not affect non-UK customers.

RE: VAT sales tax

Nice thread, great site - just to clarify, VAT sales tax does NOT apply to any BV silver buyers unless they take possession. Doesn't matter where you're from or where you're living. VAT is a sales tax in the European Union, otherwise charged on silver because it's deemed to be an industrial metal, not monetary (gold's been VAT-exempt since 1999). BV users avoid it under UK agreement between the wholesale bullion market and the tax man

Thanks BV. Appreciate the clarification and welcome to the forum.

I started using Bullionvault as things got messy in '08.

Just a small amount to begin with, then committed the entire pot over the next couple of years.
I have sold gold and transferred the cash back to the originating account and it all works fine.

One of the factors that attracted me to BV, was the fact that the gold held on our behalf, arrived at the vault as verified 99.999 % fine gold and as long as it remains in the vault it can be sold on the same basis.
If the gold is removed from the registered bullion dealer circuit, then it will need to be assayed before it can be readmitted.

So reassuring that it is gold but expensive to take delivery then try and sell.

I belatedly sold my London based Gold when I noticed that almost all BV customers were storing theirs in Zurich, where mine is now held but retain a 50kg silver deposit in London purely for entertainment ..........

Other attractions to storing / stacking this way are -

As long as the internet is functioning there is a larger potential number of buyers / sellers should things get difficult, than wondering who might buy my 'chinese' krugs.

Being a non gun country and me being eligible for a bus pass, Im not really keen to learn unarmed combat, so the question of defending the shiny is kept simpler by it being in a vault a long way away.

Oh yeah, that interview of Paul Tustain by Chris Martenson did two things for me -

I think the guy is an honest broker.
He casually mentioned that he was getting a large number of inquiries from UK Bank Managers .........

Ok hes selling his product but hes not a bullshitter in my opinion.

The only negative Ive had with BV, is that I had to quickly transfer my linked account from HBOS in '08, when it looked like it might fold, to one that had already folded and had full UK Gov backing.
The process was a bit painful because the verification they required was impossible to get due to odd technicalities with web based bank statements.

Probably just me then:shrug:

I've been using both BV and GM for some years, and would comfortably recommend either as an alternative to 'stacking at home', with the caveats/differences noted above. Had no difficulties with either, and both of them extended their service from gold into other metals (notably, GM provides Pt and Pd now as well for those who care about the 'noble' ones).

BV's service for silver is a little asymmetric in the sense that not all features work like they do for gold (market depth/spread views) - I guess that's because silver trading was added later, and a website upgrade is pending? Or maybe differences with the way they operate silver trading internally... anyway it appears to work regardless.


(Note: I don't have anything to do with either of them. I work in another industry entirely!)

My novice thoughts on BV and GM... yes, things look fine now (audits, electromagnetic scans, etc) now. But if/when TSHTF and the owners of BV/GM or government the country the vault is located wants to seize its assets, nothing you can do about it?

Shelby-villian said:

My novice thoughts on BV and GM... yes, things look fine now (audits, electromagnetic scans, etc) now. But if/when TSHTF and the owners of BV/GM or government the country the vault is located wants to seize its assets, nothing you can do about it?

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Yes this is probably the main risk.

My view is that if the Swiss Gov were to do this ( and forever junk their trusted banking status ) my stored gold is probably no longer important to me or my survival.

Seriously, if the Swiss are reduced to stealing from individual foreign deposits in a private vault, things are beyond bad and theres probably not much point in owning gold.

I would contend that there might not even be a black market for gold if things got this messed up. It relies on a presumption that someone somewhere still gives it serious value and that your black market contacts are in touch with them and will give you a fair deal ..........

Hence the need to stack tradable and essential things too.
And get some skills that will have value in this scenario.

hello everyone,

This is my first post here, although I was lurking in the shadows for few months now reading PMB

Thank you for all your postings here, I am definitely a cautious person, and once the scales fell of my eyes, I was looking for the ways to secure (as much as possible) my family's financial future. Started my own research on the topic of "what the heck is going on in the economy today" a short while ago, maybe half a year, and I know I am very late to the game - fortunately, I was always a little bit non-mainstream in my views/lifestyle, very self-reliant, always was a skilled handyman (regardless my professional career is in IT), so hopefully it is not too late for me to reshape my & my family's lifestyle into something that would work in the times of a possible total collapse), and your forum was of a great help to start to learn about the gold trading, and what is really going on out there, as well.

I was also looking for a way to invest in gold like one of the above mentioned companies (GM/BV) - since initially, I started with our national mint in Poland (I am polish expat, living in Ireland), and they do provide safe storage, but the yearly cost is ridiculous, also their spread/costs involved is humongous (if you were to sell everything you bought on the same day, you'd be roughly 10% in the red ).

And I was on a chat with BV regarding some of the questions that poped up here. Let me paste the excerpts, because they seem to be in contrast with couple of things that has been said in this topic as of now:

Michal:
hello, is it possible to withdraw physical gold from your vault, if I own less than 400 OZ? I understand there will be a charge for that, but have heard on the precious metals forum that you are only allowing physical gold withdrawals in multipliers of 400OZ?
CSR:
It is possible to withdraw your gold from the vault upon the payment of a 7.5% withdrawal fee for quantities smaller than a whole good delivery bar (400 Troy oz.)
However this is not something we perform on a daily basis, thus there is not a standard procedure in place. We will need to arrange you request on a one-off basis.
Michal:
OK, that was my understanding from reading your informations, but wanted to confirm
Michal:
So you store standard bars, so if for example I'll own half of it, how it would be handled - will you cut it in half
CSR:
That will really depend on the prevailing market condition at the time of request. We will either contact an approved dealer that can guarantee the same quality and amount of gold own or we could even proceed to reshape a bar in sizes suitable to customer's request
Michal:
Also, in case of withdrawal, can you ship the gold, or would I need to get to one of your vaults in person?
CSR:
As I mentioned, there is not a standard procedure in place but we will make the best arrangement possible at the time of request.


So, on the contrary to what has been said here, it IS possible to withdraw physical gold, even if you own a fraction of a 400oz bar - although gold withdrawal is not something they are doing routinely, apparently.

Also, from what I've read on their site, their storage/fees are de-facto denominated in gold, NOT in currency, on the contrary to what has been said here. From the horse's mouth:
"Insurance and storage is 0.12% pa for gold. This is less than a third of the normal 0.4% charged as an annual management fee by most ETFs"
"BullionVault charges a maximum of 0.80% to buy/sell gold or silver. Above $30,000 you pay less."
..so because it is a percentage of the transaction/gold value, it effectively IS denominated in gold - seemingly, with some caps (not that it is a bad deal, comparing to other options)

Last thing on my mind, and that is actual question - from what I've heard, when US of A embraced the gold standard after the WW2, His Majesty the Govt has confiscated all the gold, that has been then used for backing the new currency. Does anyone know, if they were confiscating individual investors/people's gold as well, or only some institutional gold? Because if they were after the individual investors - well, I have preciously little doubts that in times of a "greater need", they'll do the same (and not just US, of course). If this is the case, then I believe there's no other option really, other than grab physical metal and stuff it into your mattress/dryer, for the times ahead of us...

Keep up the good job!

Best Regards!
Michal

Interesting replies - although the 'one off basis' isn't quite the same thing as having clearly listed as normal procedure! Still, it's nice to know they would entertain such requests if made.

As for the 'fees in gold' issue - my bad. I've never seen a single gram deducted from BV holdings - but have seen metal 'fees' disappear from GM holdings, so when BV take fees 'in gold' I can only assume it means 'in currency, priced in gold'.

Cheers.

h4rdware said:

(...) so when BV take fees 'in gold' I can only assume it means 'in currency, priced in gold'.
Cheers.

Click to expand...

yes, that was my point - I meant effectively, same as devalued in gold, since it is always a percentage of the value/transaction - so it will also fluctuate the same way, as gold price will (ie going up, when gold price is going up).

cheers,

I think the one thing people aren't really accounting for is that when the dollar finally does collapse, leading up into that we should have a bubble/mania phase where gold is overvalued. At that point, there will be alternative assets to own.

dereksatkinson said:

I think the one thing people aren't really accounting for is that when the dollar finally does collapse, leading up into that we should have a bubble/mania phase where gold is overvalued. At that point, there will be alternative assets to own.

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Agreed.
One of my exit stratagies is to cash up when gold hits US$5000 and have enough paper to purchace a particular property with good water, land and woodland, with enough in the sale price to pay the Capital Gains Tax.
More agricultural diesel too. ( Lots, if its still affordable )

Its just that it might go through $5k in an instant, with paper value moving in the opposite direction at the same speed ........

The next exit strategy for my PM's relies on some semblance of order and continued recognition of property rights. This is not without risk, hence my comments elsewhere that stacking stuff that will be needed for survival should be part of our prepping.

I'm not sure if gold will get through 5k before the authorities act.

i started using BV recently. so far no major complaints. is annoying everything is quoted in kg. guess that is my main complaint. but they do a good ob of providing conversions when holding your cursor over prices etc.

i think this viewpt that we will have some end of days scenario and the govt will take the gold are really exageratted. no country is on the gold standard anymore so would make little sense to consficate something the govt claim has little value.

economic collapses have happended throughout history. life goes on, some people are poorer a few are able to maintain their wealth and some prosper. i agree with the person above, if the swiss govt st started stealing everyones gold then i think we would have some other issues to worry about.

i mean tons of people own stocks. what if every ceo stole money from their companies, you would never buy a stock. or what if the companies didnt pay me my interst coupons on my bonds because they didnt feel like it. you can get paralized with fear and not do anything.

everything has risks. you weigh the upside and downsides and plan accordingly. you cant look at thngs in a vacuum. if govt started stealing personal property all of over the world what would stocks be doing, bonds, housing mkt etc. weigh the options.

Hello,

warning: this is totally off-topic, so if you are not interested in listening to "scaremongers", you might as well skip this post altogether . However, I would urge everyone who is proud of being a critical thinker, to check out the links provided in it, and make their own mind

escobar said:

i think this viewpt that we will have some end of days scenario and the govt will take the gold are really exageratted. no country is on the gold standard anymore so would make little sense to consficate something the govt claim has little value.

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true, no country is on the gold standard currently, but there are movements in SOME countries, sometimes grassroots, sometimes not at all (and probably, within central banks themselves - re: gold price suppression, possible hoarding of gold by central banks, China doubling their gold reserves in half a year, and promoting gold among their citizens as a savings/investment vehicle, senator Ron Paul in the US, who would probably like to introduce gold standard for dollar as fast as possible, if he wins the elections (please, God, make it so...)), that might suggest, it will not be like this forever. And truly, if this civilization is to survive, fiat money created as a debt, AND fractional reserve banking must both end, and the nonsense of exponential growth of the economy has to be debunked, but only afterwards - since in the current system, exponential growth of economy is REQUIRED just to prevent it from collapsing - eg. supplied with appropriate amount of money (created by banks, as an interest-bearing debt).

escobar said:

economic collapses have happended throughout history. (...)if the swiss govt st started stealing everyones gold then i think we would have some other issues to worry about.

Click to expand...

...because it is, like, the governments would never EVER do that to their people, right ? Stealing from them? Unthinkable . Well, Swiss government might not dare to steal from all the international money being stored in their banks, being just some pimple on the European map, but the most powerful nations on this planet, that would not worry about retaliation, they will probably at some stage try something like that, I guess. Because they DID, in the past, and why they shouldn't.

I would really, really like to be wrong on this, but the current economic collapse we are sinking in, will almost certainly be totally unlike the previous ones. In that, we will NOT be able to recover from it, and go "business as usual". And indeed, we do have a lot of other things to worry about - but all of them rooted in inherently flawed monetary system, where money is created as an interest bearing debt.

I would urge everyone who haven't seen this yet, to check out the reasoning in:

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/guest-post-new-price-era-oil-and-gold

view the CrashCourse videos on:
http://www.chrismartenson.com/

or maybe start with that one, short and to the point:
http://www.postpeakliving.com/

...and just think about the facts and the reasoning in them. And make your own mind (and preferably, start your own organic garden, too!)

I do not remember who said that: "anyone who believes that exponential growth can go on forever on a finite planet, is either a madman, or an economist". It was some Nobel prize winner, AFAIR. There simply must be some physical glass ceiling that we will bounce of, sooner rather than later. So called "peak" - be it overpopulation, oil declining, resources depletion, phosphorus depletion ocean fishing depletion - and we are fast approaching (or are past) ALL of them.

So, are we at the peak yet? All signs and facts point out, that indeed we are. It is going to be downhill from there. And financial and especially MONETARY systems of this world COULD NOT survive, if the economic growth cannot be restored, it is simple arithmetic - if nearly all the money enters the economy as a debt, how to service it, without introducing more money into economy (= borrowing even more)? So, to service the debt, we MUST grow our economy, otherwise, it will get "foreclosed", by and large, and by the power of the numbers and an inherent design flaw, and despite all the (im)possible efforts of the hamsters in their roll cage, ie. all of us.

So what happens when the music finally stops? Everything collapses. Like, EVERYTHING, because it will be not possible to service debts (both sovereign, corporate, and individual). Defaults on debts, will cause even more money to be erased from the economy (remember, money is created as a debt, so when the debt get paid back OR written off as a foreclosure, that portion of money vanishes). And it could only be reversed, when economy can grow, to start servicing the debt back again. But how can it grow, without introducing more money into it (=going even deeper into debt)?

And all the "austerity measures" of this world wouldn't change a thing. They might close ALL government spendings to ZERO, and still, there WILL be debt to service, and to service it, we MUST grow the economy (=grow the debt, to supply more money into growing economy). The debt is inevitable in the current monetary system to provide money for the economy, so talking about "reducing debts/deficits" without reforming our monetary/banking systems from the ground up, is simply confusing effects for the causes.


And funny enough, no one is talking about that aloud, I mean so-called "mainstream", they all expect that we are only experiencing some major bump on the road, but as always, "it will end some day, and we will be doing business as normal, with the restored growth and all". Well again, I really hope they are right, for the sake of all of us (that would buy us some time to sort out the current mess), but my curse being that I am a critical thinker, I somehow cannot agree with that point of view, because IMHO, it just does not add up, and is disconnected from the reality. And disconnected from simple arithmetic, too.

Sincerelly,

PS. Oooops, that is a "little" off-topic post... please forgive me, I will behave from now on!

escobar said:

...
i think this viewpt that we will have some end of days scenario and the govt will take the gold are really exageratted. no country is on the gold standard anymore so would make little sense to consficate something the govt claim has little value.
...

Click to expand...

Jim Rickards, who is a very connected dude, thinks it is a real possibility. Check out his new book if you get the chance.

After thinking about all the potential outcomes possible in the future, the safest solution is to buy physical and bury most of it in a National Park (or equivalent location) with or without a gps tracker.

I would hold some 1oz silver and 1/10oz gold for personal bartering.

ok so what is the alternative. i am sure richards has a decent amount od wealth. you think he is storing 20 mm in gold in his house? i would say the chances of getting robbed and or killed in a burgerly are higher in that scenario than some govt taking it. so again evaluate the risks.

Pslv

phys

i posted and article about the those trusts, very inefficient from tax perspective. they also trade at a big premium to nav. closed end funds should trade at a discount. eventually the premium will approach zero.

but my comment was directed at pm bug. he references richards book. richard is obviously a fan of gold. so where does he say to put it in his book? if he thinks there is a high chance of confication why would he recomend buying it then? if your investment goes to zero through confiscation you r better off just holding dollars. so i am confused.

I haven't finished reading Rickards' book, but I don't recall him advocating that people buy any particular investment. He mostly tells people what he sees playing out on the macro stage. IIRC, he also didn't warn about physical confiscation (ie. FedGov isn't going to your house). We discussed the topic in this thread:

http://www.pmbug.com/forum/f6/imagine-scenario-what-would-you-do-247/

@ bushi, I thought your post was very good, I like the long version (but, hey, I can often make it through a FOFOA post in one sitting).

@ Shelby, I too like the 1/10 th oz Gold Eagles, as they are kind of ¨half way¨ between the 1 oz silver and the 1 oz gold.

I really like your cozy site here PMBug...

When I was online with an assistant from Bullion Vault I got an unsatisfactory answer to the question below and I was wondering whether anyone could shed some light on it.
My question to Bullion Vault was, who do I contact if BV go out of business and go offline?
I was first told I would have to contact the police. I suggested that just because you had gone out of business does not mean you have committed a crime and the police would not be interested. (I’m also not from the UK and wouldn’t even know which section to call).
They then said well a liquidator would be put in place and he would contact you.
This means I would have no idea what was happening while I hoped a liquidator would eventually contact me.
I got a name of their solicitors but again no contact details.
I left my email address with the rep form BV to email me the exact procedures of what I should do if they go out of business.
I did not get a reply.

Dickens

First post so welcome aboard.

My take on the possibility of GM or BV going out of business ( more likely due to legislation than poor business model ) is that property laws apply, not banking laws.

If the guy storing your furniture folds, it is theft if the Official Receiver sells your property to try and clear the storage companys debts. Think Receivers are appointed by some Gov authority on notification of bankruptcy.

Only if a Reciever did this, would the police get involved.

Now if the Receiver discovers that your property is no longer there its a bit more difficult, as everyone involved seems to suffer with a Corzine type memory lapse.

So all we can do is due diligence on organisations we entrust our property to.

Have you checked out your banks financial background ? (-;