Bugging out to Other Countries

Jim Sinclair said:

Dear CIGAs,

According to Dean Harry Schultz, the way to live your life involves the following:

- Money in one country
- Citizenship in a different country
- Body in another country where neither your citizenship nor money resides.

I have resisted this sage advice from Harry for many years knowing that the day might come when his genius proves true.

That day has come.

Seriously consider this advice.

Respectfully,
Jim

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http://www.jsmineset.com/2012/03/22/in-the-news-today-1138/

There is a link on his page to a brochure for his estate which is going up for auction (reserve bid $3.25MM):

http://cdnplus.jsmineset.com/1/

bushi said:

Island_Dweller: Thanks for the info - actually, you guys have kicked me into start doing some more solid research on NZ, so I've already learned that there are no such things like in nearby OZ . Only the pesky black flies, no? . And the other thing that slightly freaks me out, is that direct sun exposure is so dangerous there, that daily it is not recommended to get more than 20mins of it, is that true? I suppose it is because of the ozone layer depletion in the southern hemisphere is so much bigger than in northern? I am just wondering, does it have any negative effect on the livestock, or perhaps plants, long term? (sigh, what we do to this planet...)
.

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Hey bushi.

The sand flies are only bad in a few places (mostly the west coast). I know what you're saying about the ozone hole, but I haven't noticed anything personally and I get plenty of sun.

I was just bagging out NZ on another thread (Can you break into your house) and so I thought I'd come back to this thread to offset that by letting you and others know that NZ has no capital gains tax!

Also. My wife and I found renters for our house and we're moving down to Fiorldands in a couple of weeks. We figure to settle in Te Anau, Manapouri, or Tuatapere so if you come this way think about Fiordlands, OK.

Cheers, -Ron

...
Last year, almost 1,800 people followed Superman's lead, renouncing their U.S. citizenship or handing in their Green Cards. That's a record number since the Internal Revenue Service began publishing a list of those who renounced in 1998. It's also almost eight times more than the number of citizens who renounced in 2008, and more than the total for 2007, 2008 and 2009 combined.
...

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http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/16/us-usa-citizen-renounce-idUSBRE83F0UF20120416

A post today on ZH by OpenthepodbaydoorsHal:

I moved to Australia in 2005 and gave up my US passport. 3 hours flight from Sydney is the nation of Vanuatu, a tropical paradise with *no* income tax. If I am in Vanuatu for six months and one day per year, then I am a non-resident for Australian tax purposes which means I do not pay Australian income tax. In Vanuatu I get broadband internet, better mobile reception than Sydney, great French bakeries, a wild and friendly and wacky expat community, everyone from a board member of Pfizer to survivalists from Idaho, big fun and a busy social calendar. So it is possible.

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...
“Renouncing citizenship is an option chosen by increasing numbers of Americans. A record 1,780 gave up their U.S. passports last year compared with 235 in 2008,” Bloomberg reports.

And if you think that’s bad, wait until the much-dreaded Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act (FATCA) takes effect January 1, 2013. Some analysts predict FATCA will boost the number of renounced U.S. citizenships exponentially, especially among Americans living abroad.

.
“Under the FATCA legislation, the U.S. will require all of its citizens to report their worldwide assets and earnings to the Internal Revenue Service (IRS), regardless of where they live, how long they have lived there, or whether any money is owed,” Georgina Lavers reports.

“Similarly, foreign financial institutions will also be required to disclose such information of any American clients that they may have,” she adds.

Nigel Green, chief executive of the deVere Group, a financial consulting firm, backs up this claim:

Over the last six months, we have received a 22 per cent increase in the number of enquiries from American expatriates around the world who tell us that they are considering the drastic step of switching their homeland citizenship to that of their adopted countries.

The majority of these US expats are being prompted to consider this due to the complexity of the reporting process to the IRS, plus the threats of heavy penalties, including for previous, inadvertent non-compliance.

This sense of anxiety is compounded by the fact that a growing number of Americans are being left stranded by their foreign financial institutions as all banks and wealth management firms will also have to declare the assets of their American clients – and this process is perceived as too costly and burdensome, meaning many are refusing to deal with US citizens.

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But wait! There’s more: According to Green, foreign firms have recently started to turn down American applicants for jobs where signatory authority is required.

Why? Because those accounts would be subject to the new tax legislation.

“The fact that a growing number of the six million US citizens who happen to live overseas are being refused bank accounts outside America, or that they are being turned away from jobs as that will mean opening up firms’ accounts to U.S. bureaucrats, or because it could very well discourage foreign companies from doing business with American ones, is clear evidence that this legislation has serious, unintended negative consequences,” Green told TheBlaze in an email.
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More: http://www.theblaze.com/stories/her...n-addressed-during-the-foreign-policy-debate/

I am actually debating taking an international job with my wife. She doesn't like idea due to having to deal with language and cultural differences and she would have to stop working. I like it due to the lower cost of living, less taxes, higher pay, and I don't like the direction the U.S. is headed.

Most people in the U.S. are used to the idea of people moving into the country and cannot fathom the idea of moving out. Honestly looking at the future of countries, there are many countries that look more attractive than the U.S. opportunity wise.
$.02

Wow, I just discovered this thread. I believe I'm with Ancona, not going anywhere. About fifteen or so years ago Bing and I bought some adjacent land to some of her relatives land in Pagadian City on Mindanao with the expectation to move there when I retire rotflmbo but I was in my late thirties then. Perhaps a thousand Americans had built houses there and were taking out their SS with ATM cards from DD here in the US, with the exchange rate 1500 US dollars was a fortune. Not so anymore, and of course a "retirement" now isn't as assured as it was then. In the interim, I've lived there five separate times and run a business with mediocre success and have become convinced of at least one thing, whatever I can do there are at least 100,000 filipinos who can do it better. Or, as my filipino son says, "If things get real bad here, then I can always go home and starve to death there."

JayDubya said:

I'd still like to stay here.

We've also talked about buying some acreage in east Texas and settling there. I'd like to have a place where I can simply walk out the backdoor and shoot.

Texas requires you to own 50 acres to shoot long guns on your property. There are exceptions, and like most things, they're all over the place depending on exactly where you're at. Incorporated or unincorporated land, the phrase no restrictions doesn't necessarily mean no restrictions, etc.

In fact, I started a thread asking if anyone has set up an indoor shooting range because of those very factors. Just in case I can't find a suitable 50+-acre site.

But with more and more bullsh*t happening here in the States, heading abroad seems more likely each time we discuss things.

My wife has friends in Panama who have invited us to come down. They absolutely love it. They'll show us around and teach us all the tricks they've learned since they've been there. We will probably take that trip sometime this year and check it out.

Belize is on our list, as is Ecuador.

I had a buddy who lived in Cuenca for a while and really liked it. He said there were, obviously, some adjustments that he had to make and wasn't bothered by most of them. But one thing was for sure: the internet service was spotty, and he just couldn't rely on it, so he ended up moving to a small place outside of Guayaquil (Playas, possibly?) and then once more to Montanita. Then, all of a sudden, he just dropped off the face of the earth. I still don't know what happened to him.

One of our old buddies over at GIM and I had an email discussion about Poland going on for quite some time.

I'm embarrassed to admit it; I forget who it was. My memory isn't the greatest.

But if I remember correctly, his wife's parents lived in Wroclaw. The father had passed, and the mother wasn't doing well. He and his wife were going to go over and take over the old home and go from there. Possibly stay there, or eventually sell the house and get an apartment.

I've only been retired for a few months, and my wife retires on Thursday. Once she exhales and shakes off the stench of corporate America, we'll start having serious discussions about where we'll end up.

So, as you can see, we're nowhere near a resolution in this decision-making process. I barely started.

Who knows where we'll end up?

But if these cancerous ideas from out of California start spreading to other states like they almost always seemingly do, heading abroad is more and more likely.

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I’m not far away from East Texas. North Arkansas. And I can shoot out of my back door.

no permits or inspections either.

Believe it or not...

JayDubya said:

I've been considering it for a long time.
But now that I'm retired, I think it's definitely time to REALLY dig into exactly where to go and become an expat.

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Viking said:

I’m not far away from East Texas. North Arkansas. And I can shoot out of my back door.

no permits or inspections either.

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That's not the info I got when I looked into possibly moving to Arkansas.

state gun laws limit target practice to public and private shooting ranges that are authorized by the relevant authorities

JayDubya said:

That's not the info I got when I looked into possibly moving to Arkansas.

state gun laws limit target practice to public and private shooting ranges that are authorized by the relevant authorities

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Citation? People can’t even drive into the community where I live without permission, totally private.

A guy I went to UofA with relayed a story to me that he and some buddies were target shooting at Dagmar WMA and received a citation from a fish and game officer.
They got into a discussion and asked about target shooting on private land and were told that isn't allowed either.
So, after he told me the story I started trying to find info online and the one site that keeps getting referenced over and over is this one:
https://keepgunssafe.com/can-you-shoot-your-property-arkansas/#:~:text=No, you can’t shoot on your Arkansas property.,designated areas to carry out your target practice.

That's where I got the info I quoted the above.

I just fired off an email to the Arkansas game and fish commission asking them for the specifics.
I'll post their reply here as soon as I receive it.

JayDubya said:

One of our old buddies over at GIM and I had an email discussion about Poland going on for quite some time.

I'm embarrassed to admit it; I forget who it was. My memory isn't the greatest.

But if I remember correctly, his wife's parents lived in Wroclaw. The father had passed, and the mother wasn't doing well. He and his wife were going to go over and take over the old home and go from there. Possibly stay there, or eventually sell the house and get an apartment.

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That was @gringott . He spent some time there and posted a thread about it. Hasn't posted here since Dec 12, 2022. He's retired army. I wonder if he's running around somewhere in Europe. No matter........I hope he's ok.

Arkansas game and fish is on top of things!
They responded already. Here's what they had to say:
"the answer will be based on the particular county firearms or hunting ordinance. You will need to contact the county clerk's office with the specific address and ask."

Thanks Searcher.
Yes, it was gringott and according to our last correspondence IIRC they were heading to Poland fairly soon. Most likely he is in Poland as we speak.

@Viking If you don't mind me asking...
Where are you at in north Arkansas? And how much acreage do you have?

JayDubya said:

@Viking If you don't mind me asking...
Where are you at in north Arkansas? And how much acreage do you have?

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In the Ozarks. 10 acres. Looking to buy more. I Guarantee you I can shoot whenever and wherever I want. But yes, you do need tags for hunting animals. But target practice? Give me a break.

Here I’m having one of my pagan ceremonies for Odin on my property:

Viking said:

In the Ozarks. 10 acres. Looking to buy more. I Guarantee you I can shoot whenever and wherever I want. But yes, you do need tags for hunting animals. But target practice? Give me a break.

Here I’m having one of my pagan ceremonies for Odin on my property:

View attachment 11536

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im in the sw missouri ozarks.......yep shoot out the back door anytime....plenty of acres......creek on property.....saw at least 50 squirrels and counted 25+ deer within easy shooting range within a hr today.....no hunting permits for small game on your own property....no building or zoneing regulations or inspections for construction.....low tax county....land is relatively cheap........minorities are rare.....amish neighbors within horse ride distance....30min to great medical facilities...low cost of living....cows around....mechanics around...etc....4 seasons weather...

.......shhhhhhhh

Ttazzman said:

im in the sw missouri ozarks.......yep shoot out the back door anytime....plenty of acres......creek on property.....saw at least 50 squirrels and counted 25+ deer within easy shooting range within a hr today.....no hunting permits for small game on your own property....no building or zoneing regulations or inspections for construction.....low tax county....land is relatively cheap........minorities are rare.....amish neighbors within horse ride distance....30min to great medical facilities...low cost of living....cows around....mechanics around...etc....4 seasons weather...

.......shhhhhhhh

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Good. You can keep those Jayhawkers from getting further south for me.

Really it all depends on your budget and lifestyle/healthcare requirements. Keep in mind the US is 47th in terms of healthcare so not the best by a long shot. Lots of places in South America are just as good or better.

If you want to be close to the US then Mexico is a good option. Affordable with decent medical. You can also get affordable stem cells there which as you grow older helps keep things from falling apart.
Colombia, Uruguay and Chile are also affordable.
There's always places to avoid just like the US but a little research will tell you where not to go and also the best places to go.

Here’s a grave stone of a Confederate soldier on my property. I guess I’m a curator of a cemetery…

Viking said:

Here’s a grave stone of a Confederate soldier on my property. I guess I’m a curator of a cemetery…

View attachment 11538

Elijah Matlock (1816-1863) - Find a Grave...

Killed by Jayhawkers. Born about 1816 is Gasconade, Missouri. Married first to Lucy Morris on October 25, 1835 in Crawford, Missouri. She died about 1840. Married second to Elizabeth White about 1840 in Carroll, Arkansas. The 1850 Sugar Loaf census lists him and Elizabeth with the following...

www.findagrave.com

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thats very intresting "killed by Jayhawkers"......the civil war was very intresting in our area with many skirmishes and guerrilla warfare between Ozarkians and Kansas Natives (Quantrill, Jesse James etc)..........i have a couple of marble grave stone bases with the tops broken off on my property but no engraved items ...

also intresting the birth date disparity between the stone and records

Cigarlover said:

Really it all depends on your budget and lifestyle/healthcare requirements. Keep in mind the US is 47th in terms of healthcare so not the best by a long shot. Lots of places in South America are just as good or better.

If you want to be close to the US then Mexico is a good option. Affordable with decent medical. You can also get affordable stem cells there which as you grow older helps keep things from falling apart.
Colombia, Uruguay and Chile are also affordable.
There's always places to avoid just like the US but a little research will tell you where not to go and also the best places to go.

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I'm - again - thinking about that.

Mexico, this minute, I'd stay far from. It's chaos down there - lawless, deadly chaos, an impotent government, the drug cartels running things, millions of people transiting. Most of them lawless, to varying degrees.

But. It's looking like the Untied Skates is about to be Third-World-ized. Once we become a Chin colony, and with most of the Chin, young males the CCP decided were surplus population...this, and the Iraqi and Syrian males, similarly wished gone by their warlords...once that happens, the drug cartels will be starved out.

Once American debt-money is all raked off and the dollar crashes, even fentanyl stops coming in. The CCP won't supply it once the purpose is achieved.

It may well be, that if and when a rebirth occurs, it will happen SOUTH of the border. For one thing, northern climate without central heating, is not especially nice. For another, I expect their communities will be far less upheaved from the Davos Man plan. Mexico entered this Grate Reset, already looted, and there was little reason to tear it apart.

So that may be how it goes for me. Rather than be a slave or victim to our new Chin masters, I'll hide down there.

One thing to think about is how to get permanent resident status. Sometimes you can stay on a tourist visa and make border runs every 30 days. Another way to do it is bounce around every 5 months among select countries.

Believe it or not... Russia is a pretty good place to live....

Goldhedge said:

Believe it or not... Russia is a pretty good place to live....

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But very awkward.

First, they are not welcoming outsiders. This is not a slam. UNLIKE Japan, which was subdued and cowed after WWII, UNLIKE Europe, which both basically liked Americans and loved their money; and NEEDED it after the war....Russia has lived for a century, in tyranny and then relative freedom, but as a society closed to outsiders.

English is not a language commonly spoken. The first wave of English-speakers to come to them, after the Iron Curtain fell, were the asset-strippers...there to take and sell everything they could, including young women's bodies. Yes, pornography was a big export during the Yeltsin years.

There are probably no warm fuzzies felt of that time.

Today, the West, led by **OUR GOVERNMENT** is overtly hostile, full of false accusations, lust for war, open talk of breaking the nation into colonies. To satisfy Davos, I guess. Imagine the Axis leaders talking openly about breaking up the US and Canada.

Then, there's the added difficulty, that they don't even use the Latin alphabet. The characters are Cyrillic.

That matters. In French, German and Spanish, you can see a word spelled out, even if you don't know the proper enunciation, and often figure out what it means. Not so with the alien characters that Russians read. UNLIKE China or Japan, there's no use of English for the benefit of foreign visitors.

There are no programs to help you along. You had better be REAL quick on the uptake, if you try to make a go of it.

Try Vietnam or Albania.

This one is a bit different. Fernando talks about an American cop who quits being a cop (he has a few things to say about why) and is moving his family to Argentina. It's an interesting vid. Worth the 17 minutes to watch it........imo.

American COP Moves to Argentina looking for FREEDOM​

Jul 23, 2024


Link to the guy's channel:

• QUIT being a COP and MOVING to ARGENT...

WARNING! Is Health Care in Argentina Better than in USA?​

Jul 26, 2024

20:33

link to video • Emergency Hospital visit in Argentina!

My place is going on the market now. As soon as it sells I am taking the next 6-12 months to travel around and see where I want to land. Argentina and Chile are high up on that list. I was looking at Nicaragua and now El Salvador since they turned things around but climate is hotter than I want to live in.
Uruguay was high up on the list since you can grow your own there and nobody cares.
There isn't much in the way of personal items I would need to take. Cigars are a big one and some kitchen stuff but depending on the quality of items available there I can live without the kitchen stuff.
I do think there is an opportunity to get into Argentina fairly inexpensively right now. There are a few issues I still need to look into. Moving money and buying real estate. To be honest though I dont need to own anything. I'd be happy with a long term lease, like 10 years or something. Renewable for another 10 years. That should cover me for most of the rest of my life.

What about Panama or Belize? Argentina sounds like a ground floor opportunity if you can roll with all the coming changes.

@Cigarlover

I hope you post updates from your journey. Would love to know the mechanics and seeing the places you visit. Good luck............hope all goes well.

nickndfl said:

What about Panama or Belize? Argentina sounds like a ground floor opportunity if you can roll with all the coming changes.

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Hey Nick, both of them are fine choices if you like really warm climates. Panama and Costa Rica have gotten a little pricey over the years and for someone like me who is coming from Ohio, probably too expensive. The US coastal cities have gotten crazy in prices whereas here in the midwest we haven't really seen the same increases.
Belize is also a fine choice if you have more money than I do. LOL. For me it's still too hot. Nick, your already in FL and like that heat so probably a fine choice for you. Cuba was also a serious consideration because of my love of cigars and women. The reality is you could retire there on 50k and live very well but you would really be living the 3rd world shithole lifestyle. Rolling blackouts and real poverty. Also with the cost of Cuban cigars through the roof now it's way less attractive to me. Fortunately I have plenty and there are some Non Cubans that are very similar to Cubans at a fraction of the price. There's also a few non Cubans that are satisfying to my palate at a reasonable price so I can get by.

searcher said:

@Cigarlover

I hope you post updates from your journey. Would love to know the mechanics and seeing the places you visit. Good luck............hope all goes well.

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Thank you. I will definitely document things as much as possible. may throw a few videos out there or may even start a you tube channel with quality info on the subject but knowing me it would be an eclectic channel with all kinds of subjects, from wine and cigars to travel and healthcare.
Over the years I have always known I would not be retiring here in the US. So I have looked for alternatives. Portugal, Italy, Spain and a few countries in Asia. I always keep coming back to South America though. I've looked at just about every country in South America too. Some briefly and others much more in depth.

Columbia and Ecuador are fine choices and both have decent healthcare and costs aren't to bad. Real estate is affordable too. Raw land for about 1000 an acre and a 3 bedroom home with a little land and a pool can be had for well under 100k. Air fare to both countries is reasonable and you won't be on a plane for 12-14 hrs like Southern South America. Trying to find properties online is not so easy. Most of the online realtor companies in all of SA are really geared towards gringos relocating down there. If your a wealthy gringo then that mindset is fine I guess but for me, I have always been of the mindset that if I want to blend in with the locals and be a part of the local community I need to pay local prices as well. Just because you can afford it doesn't mean you should pay it. If you want to be in an exclusive gated community that's a different story. Your not really looking to blend in with the locals. I understand that lifestyle as well.

That leaves my last 3 choice, Uruguay, Chile and Argentina. Of these 3 Chile has pretty much been eliminated just because of the complexity to become an Ex Pat there. Every time I have looked into it it jut seems like a real PITA to live there. I'mnot sure about Uraguay and for Argentina, it's pretty simple. There was a lawyer from there that posted a recent video, like within the last 2 months, explaining the process. Not bad at all.

Criteria I am looking at.
Cost of housing, renting or ownership.
Qualify of food and wine
Healthcare, quality and costs
Cannabis culture
Ease of banking and access to gold and silver.
What am I allowed to bring in when I move there and cost of doing so. (Not a huge consideration but I do need my cigars.
Postal system
Overall cost of living. Utilities, dining out, recreational activities and all that good stuff.

Should I start a new posting on this or just stay in this one and post info as I get it.

On you tube you can find videos on just about every decent sized city on the planet. I always try and find ones where someone is walking around the city. You tend to get a better feel for the city. You also get to see what type of people are hanging out. is there is a huge welfare class or homeless population? Lots of beggars?
Here's a good one in Mendoza. I'm not really looking for city living as I prefer to be in the country but I would like to be close to a city. Cities have a lot to offer in the way of eating out and things to do. Every city is probably going to have areas to avoid and you can probably find that info on you tube as well.

Cigarlover said:

Should I start a new posting on this or just stay in this one and post info as I get it.

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Totally up to you.

Cigarlover said:

I will definitely document things as much as possible. may throw a few videos out there or may even start a you tube channel with quality info on the subject but knowing me it would be an eclectic channel with all kinds of subjects, from wine and cigars to travel and healthcare.

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This is gold. If you were to start a youtube channel you'd certainly have some followers from here. I also shar vids on other forums and would be happy to do so with yours. The subject matter you mentioned would be some good stuff.

Supposedly, Uruguay is preferred by US Elites. It does seem to have a more stable society than Argentina, but it is also more expensive. Cost of living similar to rural Iowa. I prefer Argentina, and in particular, Bariloche.

However, El Salvador is looking awfully attractive nowadays...


I have contemplated learning Spanish just in case it comes to this.

My last wife was smokin' hot and from Ecuador, but did not like her home country at all. I am seriously contemplating a 1-man submarine that can sit on the ocean floor for months at a time.

<SLV> said:

Supposedly, Uruguay is preferred by US Elites. It does seem to have a more stable society than Argentina, but it is also more expensive. Cost of living similar to rural Iowa. I prefer Argentina, and in particular, Bariloche.

However, El Salvador is looking awfully attractive nowadays...

https://tuckercarlson.com/tucker-interview-bukele

I have contemplated learning Spanish just in case it comes to this.

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I saw that interview not to long ago. It was very good. I just thought it would be to hot there. Looking at the weather though it looks like it's hotter here in Ohio right now. LOL.

Salaries there are much higher than I expected. Of course that means the cost of living is also going to be higher.


In comparison the average salary in Nicaragua, right next door is 150-200 a month.

Uruguay 400-600 a month

Argentina About the same as Uruguay except inflation is kicking their asses. So when going here you definitely need to keep your dollars and only convert as needed.

nickndfl said:

My last wife was smokin' hot and from Ecuador

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Didn't you take a trip down there and post a thread about it at 2? I enjoyed that.

If memory serves, LtDan posted a thread about a trip to Thailand and @gringott had a thread about a trip to Poland. Enjoyed both of them.