Car Dealerships: The Good & The Bad
- Thread starter searcher
- Start date
Welcome to the Precious Metals Bug Forums
Welcome to the PMBug forums - a watering hole for folks interested in gold, silver, precious metals, sound money, investing, market and economic news, central bank monetary policies, politics and more. You can visit the forum page to see the list of forum nodes (categories/rooms) for topics.
Why not register an account and join the discussions? When you register an account and log in, you may enjoy additional benefits including no Google ads, market data/charts, access to trade/barter with the community and much more. Registering an account is free - you have nothing to lose!
Try to get a 2003 or older.
Nissan, about 2000, was taken over essentially by Renault. Remember Renault? They took over American Motors, and discontinued dated-but-reliable models like the Concord (formerly, Hornet) and Spirit (former Gremlin) in favor of R9-derived American models, the Alliance and Encore.
The problem with Renault is...despite responsible financial management, despite leadership with morals - they treated AMC as a valued property, unlike how Daimler-Benz treated the whole of Chrysler - in spite of that, they don't understands the fundamentals of their business. THEY CANNOT ENGINEER RELIABLE CARS.
So, Renault bailed on AMC, selling it to Chrysler; and instead made a play for Nissan. Nissan had many of the same problems that AMC did in the States, with the advantage of superior engineering. They just had lost the script - having little long-term planning, with unimaginative product.
I thought it would be a good linkup. Renault could teach Nissan how to design exciting auto models - appealing style, novel logistics. Nissan could teach Renault how to beef up their products, so they last longer than 100,000 km.
The opposite happened. Renault cheapened Nissan engineering. The Nissan lineup got SOMEWHAT more appealing, but still lagged behind other Japanese companies. And Nissan developed a terrible reputation.
The early Frontiers, as well as the Hardbody models before it, are bulletproof. Not so great as the 1970s Datsun trucks, but with real value, proven durability.
I'd stay far from later models, however.
That (expletive) is what I used to see in Chevrolet dealerships 45 years ago.
I thought that with the Japanese invasion, the How-Can-We-Help-You? attitude Toyota brought to their car dealerships, we were past that.
I had a Chevette I bought in 1978. Brake warning light came on. Damn dealer's "warranty repair" involved cutting the power line to the switch for the light; and then dropping the hood shut on the roll of electrical tape set on the depressed part of the fender that the edge of the hood overlaps.
The hood was permanently twisted up. Not buckled, but obvious; and the only real fix was a replacement hood. I didn't get it, wasn't offered it.
An independent shop had to really fix the warning light.
And TO THIS DAY I will not buy a car from Garbage Motors.
- Messages
- 16,262
- Reaction score
- 3,158
- Points
- 238
Stellantis to shed more than 2,400 workers over discontinued Ram truck
Jeep-maker Stellantis — one of the Big Three automakers — is set to lay off around 2,450 workers later this year at a discontinued Ram 1500 Classic factory outside of Detroit. “With the introduction of the new Ram 1500, production of the Ram 1500 Classic at the Warren (Michigan) Truck Assembly...
Now ya did it. You had to put that out...dipping into my ocean of trivia and personal anecdotes, of the auto industry.
My old man was...unique. His whole life and history made him that way...long story. But, a German-American kid with a future ahead in engineering...he found himself on the front lines, American uniform, during the final push of WWII. Liberation of Paris (had less than a day there, move it on, troops, we got a war to win) and final push to Berlin.
And then, post-combat duties, driving Allied brass around in jeeps. Because he knew the landscape. (Later used as a translator for death-camp documents...another story).
Like most GIs, he developed a real affection for Jeeps. He always wanted one. UNLIKE most former GIs, he didn't just buy a surplus Jeep, or a later updated CJ. Wasn't practical, so he chose not to do it.
But living in Great Lakes snow country, he did see a need for 4wd...this, long before it was popular.
Willys, the Jeep people, changed, too. Willys was bought by Kaiser - the Liberty Ship people, also the owners of the failed Kaiser-Frazer car line. So Willys-Overland became Willys Motors Div. of Kaiser, and then Kaiser-Jeep.
My old man's company-car perq went away in 1968, and that was about the time that the prototype SUV, the Jeep Wagoneer, had pretty-much proven itself. Introduced in 1963, it sold well, and then better; and in 1968, they adopted Buick engines. For a short time, as it turned out. Styling, of course, was conservative and based on early-1960s GM wagons.
My old man bought one. My mother blew a gasket - she had spent six years fighting the quality-control problems of a 1962 Rambler ("The Miracle Car!" said the ad copy) and nastily asked him if maybe he wouldn't like a Checker station wagon, better.
As it turned out, the Wagoneer was a lemon. Hindsight showed why: Sales exploded for Jeep, which had one small assembly line where ALL their cars were made, except for military trucks, which were made in a plant in South Bend. Kaiser Jeep, part of Kaiser Industries, was owned by Henry Kaiser outright - who had died a year earlier. Estate taxes meant the company would probably be broken up. In that environment, as well as the new regulatory fog, meant Kaiser-Jeep wouldn't be expanding their production facilities.
So they pushed out their Jeep models faster, and quality suffered.
Meaning there were a LOT of warranty claims. Everything from paint to wiring to mis-assembled transfer-case mounting, to broken spring leaves.
In the midst of that, Kaiser's heirs and Kaiser Industries directors, cut a deal with American Motors to sell the company to AMC. There's a long backstory on that, but that's the Cliff Notes story.
VERY...FIRST thing AMC did was, disallow ALL warranty claims against Kaiser Jeep. New company, new brand, we know NUFF-INK about those things that look like cars we're now selling.
So one of my old man's major claims went into arbitration. They had a particularly nasty AMC man as the company representative, who told him, basically: You do whatever you want with your Jeep. Fix it or sell it. But you're paying for it.
And so it was. With that move, several companies lost any hope of future business. No Wheel Horse garden tractor sold (an AMC product, back then); no replacement Jeep; no Eagle 4x4, which would have been closer to my father's needs, later on.
He later moved to Dodge-branded cars, but he'd probably have given them up after Chrysler became one with AMC to buy Jeep.
And he was FURIOUS with me that I bought a surplus Postal Jeep. NO AMC OR JEEP CARS IN MY DRIVEWAY! PARK IT DOWN THE STREET...
Point of this little diatribe is, there's gonna be a lot moar of that. Between insane regulation for smog and fuel economy, and this fetish with battery cars, I think most, or all, present manufacturers will be bankrupted or sold under negative circumstances. Ford is gonna fail. GM, I can't see making it. Stellantis is going to retreat to Europe, to sell Alfa Romeros to Davos members...and will sell the Jeep brand to the Chin.
Toyota, failing in meeting Obamaregulation on fuel economy (all these twin-turbo V6s that are failing with 10,000 miles) may well retreat to the Third World. Make primitive cars for a developing world - cars that last forever, like the old VW Beetle.
Nissan is gonna fail, soon. Mazda...who knows? Force-sale to Toyota, the way the Japanese brand Prince was force sold into Nissan, 50 years ago. The Japanese way.
Most of us are going to be walking, I fear.
Last edited:
- Messages
- 16,262
- Reaction score
- 3,158
- Points
- 238
If you're looking for the mechanics, it's no difference than if you were working. Pick out what you want to buy, arrange financing or pay with cash.
If you go with financing, see what the dealership can offer vs your bank or cu. If you do a cash deal, there should be no problems.
I've been retired about 10 years now and bought a new car in July 2023. I did a cash deal. Car had to be ordered, so I put $500 down with a check - which wasn't cashed until I actually picked up the car. When the car came in (maybe 2 or 3 weeks) the salesman called and said the car was ready and that all I would need was a personal check. Picked up the car the next day. Had no problems.
They only check credit and verify income. They don't care where it comes from.
Even if your loan will last longer than your actuarial-table life expectancy...they don't care. The Finance people are just loan engineers. Once it's approved, they turn the loan paper over to the lender or loan broker (who sells the loan) and they get their payment for the unit. Out of their hands and off their desks.
- Messages
- 16,262
- Reaction score
- 3,158
- Points
- 238
Stellantis ‘Starting To Come Apart’ As CEO Flies To Detroit To Salvage Sales
Plus Tesla is facing import tariffs in Europe and BMW just issued an enormous recall amid fears its cars could short-circuit
jalopnik.com
Good.
Stellantis has been worse for the former American brands, than Daimler-Benz was to Chrysler, 20 years ago.
They're dead brands anyway. Chrysler, one model. Dodge, an electric Alfa Romeo model, that nobody wants.
Jeep, heavily loaded with electric crap. Electric, to go off-road? Electric, with 4wd in the cold? NO WAY.
Plus, a LOT of $100k-plus models.
Ram is doubling-down on the six-figure trucks - THAT NO ONE CAN AFFORD, now.
And no one wants Fiat, now.
It's sad...but it's all gonna go down. Sergio Sweaterman engineered the merger of FCA with Peugeot, BECAUSE FCA WAS NOT WORKING. When you have a failing multinational manufacturer, the logical thing to do is merge it to make it bigger, right? It's probably merciful that Sergio died on an operating table...all that Free Healthcare in Italy.
Now you have a Belgian soup-slop conglomerate filled with American brands no one can afford and European makes no one wants. Stellantis is REALLY good a creating new logos and paying bonuses to the top looters and asset-strippers; but it's got a life expectancy less than that of President Depends.
Stellantis has been worse for the former American brands, than Daimler-Benz was to Chrysler, 20 years ago.
They're dead brands anyway. Chrysler, one model. Dodge, an electric Alfa Romeo model, that nobody wants.
Jeep, heavily loaded with electric crap. Electric, to go off-road? Electric, with 4wd in the cold? NO WAY.
Plus, a LOT of $100k-plus models.
Ram is doubling-down on the six-figure trucks - THAT NO ONE CAN AFFORD, now.
And no one wants Fiat, now.
It's sad...but it's all gonna go down. Sergio Sweaterman engineered the merger of FCA with Peugeot, BECAUSE FCA WAS NOT WORKING. When you have a failing multinational manufacturer, the logical thing to do is merge it to make it bigger, right? It's probably merciful that Sergio died on an operating table...all that Free Healthcare in Italy.
Now you have a Belgian soup-slop conglomerate filled with American brands no one can afford and European makes no one wants. Stellantis is REALLY good a creating new logos and paying bonuses to the top looters and asset-strippers; but it's got a life expectancy less than that of President Depends.
- Messages
- 16,262
- Reaction score
- 3,158
- Points
- 238
GM Dealership Hit With $350,000 Judgement For Wrongful Repossession
Suburban Chevrolet Cadillac of Ann Arbor tried to get a reduction in the judgment, but a judge refused.
jalopnik.com
- Messages
- 16,262
- Reaction score
- 3,158
- Points
- 238
Tesla Drops $50,000 Penalty Against Cybertruck Owners Who Sell Their Trucks
After threatening fines and purchase bans for anyone attempting to flip their Cybertrucks, Tesla has now given up enforcing the rule
jalopnik.com
- Messages
- 16,262
- Reaction score
- 3,158
- Points
- 238
Owner of Charlotte dealership makes citizen’s arrest to stop alleged car thief
The owner of a south Charlotte car dealership took matters into his own hands, performing a citizen’s arrest when he came across a man accused of stealing one of his cars.On June 7, surveillance video captured the moment Jeffery Snipes turned from an alleged customer into a suspected thief.
In the video, Snipes peeled out of the parking lot of the used car dealership in a $30,000 Mercedes. A dealership worker ran after the car, nearly getting hit himself.
“He wanted to see the car,” Riyad Omar said.
More:
- Messages
- 16,262
- Reaction score
- 3,158
- Points
- 238
Ford recalls 90,736 vehicles due to engine valve issue
Ford will recall 90,736 vehicles as engine intake valves in the vehicles may break while driving, according to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.
Recalls | NHTSA
Use our VIN lookup tool to check for recalls on your car, or search by make and model. Also, get recall information on car seats, tires and equipment.
- Messages
- 16,262
- Reaction score
- 3,158
- Points
- 238
GM and Hyundai agree to explore collaboration on vehicles and manufacturing to reduce capital spending
- General Motors and Hyundai Motor said they have entered into an agreement to explore “future collaboration across key strategic areas” in an effort to reduce capital spending and increase efficiencies.
- Potential areas of interest include production of passenger and commercial vehicles, internal combustion engines, and electric and hydrogen technologies.
- The agreement, a nonbinding memorandum of understanding, comes as the automotive industry has renewed its focus on capital efficiency following years of aggressive spending.
The automakers’ potential areas of interest include co-development and production of passenger and commercial vehicles, internal combustion engines, and clean-energy, electric and hydrogen technologies, they said in a joint press release.
More:
- Messages
- 16,262
- Reaction score
- 3,158
- Points
- 238
Stellantis Dealers Blame CEO for the 'Disaster'
Carlos Tavares was named CEO and Chairman of Group PSA in 2014. When the French conglomerate merged with Fiat-Chrysler Automobiles in 2021, he became the first CEO of Stellantis. But American dealers aren't exactly thrilled with how the 66-year-old Portuguese businessman is steering the ship.In an open letter to Tavares, the US Stellantis National Dealer Council accused the CEO of leading the world's fourth-largest automaker toward a "disaster." Dealers are particularly unhappy with how the head honcho banked nearly $40 million last year. In addition, the big boss is criticized for causing the "rapid degradation" of Jeep, Ram, Dodge, and Chrysler.
Jeep sales fell 9% in the first half of 2024 while Ram dropped by 26%. Chrysler suffered an 8% decline while Dodge was down by 16%.
Contacted by Automotive News, Stellantis said public personal attacks are not the way to go. Available in PDF format, the open letter highlights the huge concerns dealers in the United States have about where Stellantis is heading:
More:
- Messages
- 16,262
- Reaction score
- 3,158
- Points
- 238
This one is a bit different.
www.propublica.org
One of the Nation’s Largest Auto Lenders Told Customers, “We’re Here to Help.” Then It Took Their Money and Their Cars.
CarMax partner Exeter Finance makes high-interest loans to people with troubled financial histories. It allows borrowers to skip payments but often adds thousands of dollars in new charges — costs that customers say Exeter didn’t tell them about.
It's never easy or good when you're borrowing money you cannot afford to repay.This one is a bit different.
One of the Nation’s Largest Auto Lenders Told Customers, “We’re Here to Help.” Then It Took Their Money and Their Cars.
CarMax partner Exeter Finance makes high-interest loans to people with troubled financial histories. It allows borrowers to skip payments but often adds thousands of dollars in new charges — costs that customers say Exeter didn’t tell them about.
When you're obligated to take loans with these subprime usury houses, you can expect things to go rough. Also, you can expect not to get a lot of legal protection - THEY have protection, because they operate on the grey edges of law. And they do so because of connections and/or graft.
I borrowed from CarMax - for a short time, six weeks, while waiting for insurance reimbursment. But I didn't know for certain that it would work out that way. The loan was 3 years - and CarMax financed in-house, and their interest was lower than either of my two credit unions.
There were snafus with the paperwork, but not criminal. Obvious incompetence. They issued the title twice - after they'd completed the transfer, and the title was mailed to me (Montana is a no-hold state, even car-owners with a loan, get their title delivered) they RE-mailed it. Neither title was noted as cancelled; it was done twice, on two separate title-transfer forms.
Then I paid off the note, with insurance reimbursment. Only got a lien-removal form on one of the titles. Had to take it down to the title office, and have them work it through, to sort out that there was only one title, it was paid for, lien removed. Cost me $30 in lost-title fees to get that un-snarled.
But it wasn't avarice, only incompetence.
Been watching this with interest. It seems Senior Tavares found his level of incompetence.
He made his name running a small, almost fringe, auto conglomerate - PSA, parent of Peugeot. Small French maker of throwaway cars for people who want cars for status, in a culture that punishes car ownership.
He landed in the big-time when FCA bought them - using the same insight Fiat used when buying the ruins of Chrysler. Then, of course, Sergio Marchionne died on the operating table - dead of government healthcare - and the merger was already in action. No one was there to take Sergio's place but Tavares.
He's smug, greedy and incompetent - he thinks he can increase Stellantis' bottom line by cutting lower-priced models and jacking the prices on those left. Obviously he's an economic illiterate, and cannot understand that even in America, no one can or should spend $100k for a DEPRECIATING ASSET, a TRANSPORTATION appliance that has a fixed use life. And often, now, with all the required complex electronics, a much-shorter life than what previously-offered products would deliver.
Now he's flailing. He doesn't even WANT most of the Chrysler mix. He's tried to re-badge a Maserati (crap snob Italian brand) model into a Dodge. Buyers aren't having it. Chrysler has only one model, an aging minivan that doesn't hold up. The cars people want, are now gone - some by Fuddrel regulation, some because Carlos doesn't make enough money on them.
I think either a bankruptcy of Chrysler Group (not the whole of Stellantis) or a sale to China, is gonna happen. In weeks.
- Messages
- 16,262
- Reaction score
- 3,158
- Points
- 238
Nissan Frontier Driver Finds Missing Frame Welds on Certified Pre-Owned Truck
A Nissan Frontier driver is now concerned for his fellow owners after discovering his truck was sold to him with a defective frame. Though the pickup was certified by a dealer, it turned out to have problems that required Nissan to step up and replace it. The process of getting compensation has been grueling, and often left the owner feeling hung out to dry.Mathew Bossinger recounted his experience to The Drive, which began when he bought a 2023 Frontier 4×4 crew cab from Woodhouse Place in Omaha, Nebraska. He said he purchased the truck as a certified pre-owned unit with just 14,000 miles on it, and that it was meant to be a retirement gift to himself after serving in the Army for 16 years. Bossinger said he traded in two of his family’s vehicles for the truck, whose purchase he finalized through his brother-in-law, a salesman at Woodhouse Place Mazda.
Because the truck was stocked at Woodhouse Place Nissan, that meant he was forfeiting his CPO warranty. Ordinarily, that wouldn’t have been a problem, but this didn’t turn out to be your typical CPO car purchase. Six weeks after buying the truck, Bossinger started hearing strange noises coming from underneath.
More:
11:54
Such a defect wouldn't have been found doing a pre-sale prep and evaluation. They look at wear, and functioning of transmission, driveline aspects, tire wear, brakes...that sort of thing.
Factory structural defects, they wouldn't have been looking for, or found. Probably the person evaluating the truck, either didn't hear the noise or didn't want to know about it.
This is why the manufacturer of the car or truck, MATTERS. Kia is not Toyota; and Nissan is lower than either of them. Wasn't always that way, but Nissan got Renault-ized, the last 20 years.
Factory structural defects, they wouldn't have been looking for, or found. Probably the person evaluating the truck, either didn't hear the noise or didn't want to know about it.
This is why the manufacturer of the car or truck, MATTERS. Kia is not Toyota; and Nissan is lower than either of them. Wasn't always that way, but Nissan got Renault-ized, the last 20 years.
- Messages
- 16,262
- Reaction score
- 3,158
- Points
- 238
More about Stellantis.
UAW union files unfair labor charges against Stellantis, accuses automaker of violating contract
- The United Auto Workers union on Monday said it had filed federal unfair labor practice charges against Stellantis.
- The UAW alleged the automaker had violated contract terms and is attempting to move production of the Dodge Durango out of the U.S.
- The charges are the latest action by the union against Stellantis, which has drawn the ire of UAW leaders for production cuts, layoffs and other actions.
The charges are the latest action the union has taken against Stellantis, which has drawn the ire of UAW leaders for production cuts, layoffs and other actions since the two sides reached a new contract last year.
More: