Silver Demand Drivers (and vault totals)

Welcome to the Precious Metals Bug Forums

Welcome to the PMBug forums - a watering hole for folks interested in gold, silver, precious metals, sound money, investing, market and economic news, central bank monetary policies, politics and more. You can visit the forum page to see the list of forum nodes (categories/rooms) for topics.

Why not register an account and join the discussions? When you register an account and log in, you may enjoy additional benefits including no Google ads, market data/charts, access to trade/barter with the community and much more. Registering an account is free - you have nothing to lose!

pmbug

Your Host
Administrator
Benefactor
Messages
15,609
Reaction score
5,280
Points
268
Location
Texas

 

 

GAME-CHANGER! Silver Revolutionizes Fuel Cell Technology, Paving the Way for Fuel Cell Car Supremacy​

By Jon Forrest Little

What is this News Article About?

Silver kicks Platinum out of the Fuel Cell Manufacturing Process Making Fuel Cell Cars Cost Competitive with EVs. Moreover, Fuel Cell Cars Perform Much Better than EVs.

A Brief look Back at Turning Points Considering Energy Transitions

There have been turning points in history when a new fuel source improved the villagers' lives.

The Industrial Revolution marked a significant shift from wood to coal as the primary energy source during the late 18th century. Coal's higher energy density and availability fueled the growth of steam-powered engines, revolutionizing industries and transportation in the 19th century.

Click the link to read the rest:

 
I don't like when articles fail to cite sources. Anyway, I found the source for that claim:


 
Umm, that thin-film still used PALLADIUM. So I guess they haven't noticed that was more expensive than Pt lately. Palladium does have some very unique properties with hydrogen. But this really isn't that much of a breakthrough. Nor much detail.
 
That news is only a couple of weeks old. It will take some time for industry to adopt the tech (and they will if it works and has significantly favorable economics). I don't know what the demand for the fuel cell market will be by the time this reaches critical mass adoption, but I have to think it's going to drive a bit of industrial silver demand while diminishing some demand for platinum.
 

 
BoA seems to think that fuel cell news is significant:


 

More (very long and interesting):


tl;dr: there is not enough supply to meet current demand for very long
 
Last edited:
This post may contain affiliate links for which PM Bug gold and silver discussion forum may be compensated.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mar...sed-for-an-explosive-move-in-2024/ar-AA1lz3AS
 
Silver prices could be headed for an “explosive” rise in 2024 if global supplies continue to fall short of demand
Global supplies are not falling short of demand though. Mining and recycling are falling short of demand but above ground stockpiles are plentiful. Somewhere between 2 and 56 billion ounces depending on who you want to believe and what they include in their metrics. London, NY and JPM alone are probably close to 2 billion. How many are in private investors hands? It's all available at the right price.
 
... Mining and recycling are falling short of demand ...

I'm pretty sure that is what they meant (even if they used "supply" where they should have used "production"). Ronan Manly did a better job of breaking this down in the report mentioned in post #9. He (Ronan Manly) also points out that the above ground supply is not as plentiful as the Silver Institute/Metals Focus is reporting (because a significant percentage of vaulted silver is held by ETFs and not available to the industrial market).
 

2023: The Dawn of the Silver Boom​

By: Chen Lin, chenpicks.com

December 2023

2023 saw another year of the huge supply-demand deficit in silver, despite heavy investment selling. The most significant demand increase came from solar panels. In 2021, the Silver Institute and Metal Focus group were looking at PV (solar panel) using 110 million oz, growing at 12-13% per year. But in November 2023, the Silver Institute and Metal Focus group revised the 2023 estimate to about 200 million oz! In other words, in the past two years, over 100 million oz of silver was taken by the PV industry “unexpectedly”!

Read the rest:

 



Above-ground silver stocks are an order of magnitude higher than what is widely assumed.

In total, there were an estimated 1.6 million metric tonnes of physical silver above ground by late 2018. This amount is 20 times higher than what The Silver Institute discloses as “identifiable above-ground stocks,” which is what’s widely assumed to be the total above-ground stock. The huge discrepancy is important to analyze, as it reveals silver’s true stock to flow ratio and supply and demand dynamics. Misunderstanding these dynamics would mean failing to understand the price of silver.
 
Potential impact on silver demand:
More:

 
Keith Neumeyer says he doesn't believe in the estimates of the Silver Insitute and their consultant firms.
I think he even stopped sponsoring them.

That said,







Historical and forecast solar capacity by region, 2006-2025.





Above-ground silver

Silver is interesting in that there is the same amount of investable silver above ground as there is gold, because 60% of silver goes into industrial uses and 80% of that end up in landfills. Just 40% is used for investing.

Looking at mined silver versus gold, if we take the 60% of silver used for industrial purposes and subtract the 80% that gets thrown into landfills, silver should be more valuable yet the current silver to gold price ratio is 88:1.

Richard (Rick) Mills (don't know him)

 
that article puts together most of the info i have been trying to accumulate, it had been a couple of years since i did a fundamentals checkup on silver thank you sir
 
that article puts together most of the info i have been trying to accumulate, it had been a couple of years since i did a fundamentals checkup on silver thank you sir

Who said Mother Nature didn't provide a role for Flies on the Walls : )
 
This "bal silver mine production is projected to fall 2% this year to about 820 million ounces, compared to forecasted demand of 1.2 billion ounces. "

and This in the next paragraph.... Does not compute... The Silver Institute forecasts a 140Moz silver deficit this yea
 
as i read that he is quoting information from different sources including some interpretations along the way, and while they do not match they agree in the fundamental direction of change

his whole article is just a collection of accumulated information from various sources as i read it .......he draws a conclusion at the end ...... i havent checked his fact sources but at this point i assume they are truthfull
 
Above-ground silver stocks are an order of magnitude higher than what is widely assumed.


@Cigarlover @Ttazzman
would you agree with Mr. Richard Mills?
 
@Cigarlover @Ttazzman
would you agree with Mr. Richard Mills?

i am not sure if i "agree" with Mills ............i enjoy his research and information provided and take it with a skeptical eye.......he speculates on mine closures and nationalization which is purely "speculation" and has a component of political nature and only time will provide the answer....

his research does point to lower MINE production going forward, and silver is really quite hard to predict mine supply since much of it is mined as a byproduct metal and much of that is driven by the worlds overall production of products requiring other metals......his information also

silver has generally seen a world wide reduction of stockpiles of silver over many years ....and a lot of silver has moved into private hands for investment which could be considered a stockpile that is available as prices increase

as prices increase primary silver mine production should increase as less profitable deposits become economically feasible and if demand exceeds supply prices will increase till the market can draw from the investment stockpiles to balance supply and demand

just as a discussion point ....byproduct silver supply cost is much lower than primary silver mine supply and a driver to keep silver costs lower and i see byproduct silver production as a major component to keeping silver pricing low

all my opinions ....and rambling, but i am not a writer ...
 
Thanks @Ttazzman
I knew I can count on you

I was more interested in the above ground stockpiles point rather than about future mining output.
Common sense suggests that there is more silver than gold above ground, because more silver gets mined than gold.
But then there is the distinction, silver gets industrially used and wasted, gold doesn't - better: gold's wasted percentage is by far much lower than silver's.
Hence there are these projections that actually there is more gold than silver above ground.
I was wondering whether such an idea would be worth of being considered.
 
Good discussion here. Thanks all.
Logically silver should be priced a lot higher than it is, based on the above.

But it looks like it is not allowed to find its true market value ..........
 

I suppose there is one factor in there that could account for the difference. That would be silver recycling.

However, one thing almost no one discusses is from what is this silver being recycled? It used to be blamed on photography but that can't be much anymore. What exactly are they recycling and how much of that stock is left to recycle?
 
I went back and revisited Ronan Manley's report (cited in post #9) to compare his numbers against the latest data.

LBMA​


Ronan Manley said:
...
But, as of the end of November, of this 26,284 tonnes, 16,028 tonnes (61%) was held in silver-backed ETFs which hold their silver in London, which leaves only 10,256 tonnes (39%) of silver in the London vaults not owned by ETFs.
...

Latest from the LBMA is:
...
As at end December 2023, ...

There were also 26,631 tonnes of silver (a 1.3% increase on previous month), ...


SLV report for 26 January claims 343,504,554.9 ounces (9,738.19 tonnes) vaulted in London. That's a pretty significant drop from the 16,028 tonnes reported on 14 December. That leaves a total of 16,892.81 tonnes (63%) of silver in the London vaults not owned by ETFs.

COMEX​


Ronan reported that as of 14 December, COMEX registered silver was 45.5moz and eligible was 223.02moz for a total of 268moz.

Ronan Manley said:
... 103.17 million ozs of SLV’s silver (3209 tonnes) is held in the JP Morgan vault in New York and this needs to be excluded from Eligible. ...

That would yield roughly 165moz in COMEX vaults not owned by ETFs.

Comex data from Friday:


The 26 January SLV report claims 103,176,253 oz vaulted in New York COMEX vault - a very slight increase over the December report.

That yields roughly ~173moz in COMEX vaults not owned by ETFs - a slight (8moz or ~227 tonnes) increase over the December numbers that Ronan published.

SGE/SFE​




SFE has dropped from 1041 tonnes in mid December to to ~897 tonnes as of today.
 
I don't believe a word from almost any of those organizations. They have demonstratively shown they are there to rig/control prices.
 
I don't believe a word from almost any of those organizations. They have demonstratively shown they are there to rig/control prices.
that is why i like to keep a birds eye view of things and their general trend direction.... while reported details and statistics are worth looking at they can be parsed by the agenda of the reporter.......just like our interpretation of those reports can be viewed thru rose colored glasses .......
 

a interesting statistic would be what percentage of newly mined silver is currently expected to be lost forever, this could lead us to understand how much silver is "stockpiled" in for example solar panels and how feasible and when will solar panels expire and start being recycled into the supply chain (this is something i am trying to get a understanding of now) as solar panels could be a huge above ground "stockpile" of silver that may start to come into the supply chain in a few years offsetting mine supply losses ..........just like photographic silver did in the past...
 
In past interviews Kieth has stated that silver recycling is a losing proposition. He had looked at getting into it.
Obviously prices need to be higher to make recycling worthwhile. They use about 20 grams per panel and there's a shitload of panels out there right now.
They have also been saying for years that silver is in deficit. 120 million ounces at least per annum. Thats not a small amount. 10-15% of worldwide production.
I know the bankers get blamed for keeping the prices artificially low but in reality they are just doing the bidding of their corporate customers. Tesla, Apple and the solar panel manufacturers use huge amounts of silver and it's one of their costs they they can manipulate and keep low. Silver is a 20 billion dollar market. A rounding error for Apple so it's nothing to manipulate the price lower.

Input costs will continue to climb with higher labor and fuel costs. At some point this will lead to higher silver prices or mines will have to shut down. Of course if mines shut down then we also get higher prices for silver.
Right now we have Chinas economy slowing and the US is right behind them. Probably the reason for the weakness in silver right now but where was the strength in the silver price over the last several years when solar panels and EV;s were flying off the shelves? That never made sense to me other than price manipulation. But if the government can green light bitcoin which in my opinion has 0 value, and allow speculation in a 0 value asset, imagine what they will allow with silver.
Investment demand I the wildcard in all of this. If people around the world bought even 1 ounce of silver annually this pricing would be much different. With 900 million ounces of production and 7 billion ounces of demand, it wouldn't take long to see prices equal to or exceeding gold. Of course that's a pipe dream since not even Americans will buy 1 ounce a year. Most dont even know it exists.
 

Silver Solar Use in India​

48 GW x 500,000 ounces = 24 Million Ounces

4x higher from 2023 levels (to meet their NetZero targets)


India is now the largest country in the world by population, with 1.4bn people (18% of the global total), $3.5 trn of GDP, and GDP per capita of $2,500 pp pa.
However, India only uses 6% of total global energy, 6% of total global electricity and emits 6% of global CO2.
What implications for energy markets and energy transition as India grows?
And could India’s energy demand move global energy markets in the late 2020s as China’s moved global energy markets in the mid-2000s?






According to my friend Mr. Chen Lin of ChenPicks (considered the leading expert in analyzing Silver loading in Solar panels) 1 GW = 500,000 ounces of silver
India did add 12GW of solar in 2023, but the growth rate would need to be 4x higher just to cause coal power to flat-line in absolute terms.
Pixy Math: 12GW x 4x Higher = 48GW (500,000) = 24,000,000 ounces of silver (24 Million ounces of Silver)

 
The Silver Institute published an update:
 

Everyone uses money, maybe we should take exception for calling it investment demand. Everyone demands money and could always use some more.
 

Silver: The New Oil of the Photovoltaic Era​

Feb 8, 2024

Gregor Gregersen founder and CEO of Silver Bullion continues the discussion from part 1 on the demand for silver. Gregor lends his insight on the renewable energy space where silver looks to be "the new oil" of the photovoltaic era. Gregor will give you those numbers and reasons why here, in part 2 of the silver industrial demand for photovoltaics. 12 minutes long.
Part 1 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srqcJ....


Silver plays a pivotal role in the evolving industrial market. Read our newest report on the rising solar photovoltaic (PV) demand for silver here: https://www.silverbullion.com.sg/Arti...
 

'Silver is the new gold' as Egyptians try to protect savings


CAIRO, Feb 8 (Reuters) - Egyptian women traditionally receive a gold jewellery set, or "shabka", on their engagement. But as surging prices and a weakening currency have driven up demand for the precious metal, some are getting silver instead.

The trend is a measure of an economic crisis in which inflation has been running at more than 30% and the central bank has allowed the currency to weaken 50% against the dollar, with more devaluation expected.

"Silver is the new gold," said a salesman at a Cairo silver store who only gave his first name, Abanob.

(Egypt = 110M people)
 

40M oz is about 4% of year global production
If those ETF shares are really 100% backed, that's another story
 

 
Cookies are required to use this site. You must accept them to continue using the site. Learn more…