Ukraine

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pmbug said:
@Joe King - I think you are getting lost in the weeds for argument's sake
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I'm trying to be consistent. If borders are to be respected, all borders must be respected.

The people in the East did not want the change in gov that those in West Ukraine made. The divide has existed since that time and those in West Ukraine have been actively fighting to force them to remain a part of Ukraine.

Imo, it is stupid to wage war in order to force people to be part of something that they no longer want to be a part of.

Or did they have a gun held to their heads in the 2014 vote too?
 
Joe King said:
They already voted the same way 8 years ago when Ukraine was fully in charge.
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This election(s)?

2014 Donbas general elections - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org
 
I'm not entirely sure I understand the full context for what is happening here, but I get that at least some people in Georgia aren't happy with Russian overlords.

 
Voodoo said:
How about using a source that isn't wikipedia? ...
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wikipedia statements included citations which I quoted. wikipedia isn't "the source" it's a summary/compilation of many primary sources.

Videos are, in general, not very interesting to me. They are very easy to slant by being selective in who gets interviewed or what gets shown (if things aren't outright staged). I don't watch Michael Moore movies either. Your video was published by Patrick Lancaster who has been caught red handed staging videos:

News, propaganda and confirmation bias

Oh, so now you enjoy Russian state media. Just posting what comes down the pike. I'm sure it's all over the BBC...? Edit by PMBug: I moved some posts here from another thread as this was not germaine to the original topic.
www.pmbug.com
 
pmbug said:
This election(s)?


2014 Donbas general elections - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org
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That could be used as a great drinking game.

Every time one reads where they use the words, "far-right", ya do a shot. Lol

The only ones describing every thing they don't like politically, as being "far-right, are the same ones responsible for the bulk of the problems we face today.



If any vote that goes against the West's wishes is always due to foreign interferance, why have they been fighting over the issue for the past eight years?

If they actually wanted to be part of West Ukraine, at any point over the past eight years they could have simply stopped resisting and joined forces.
Why have they not done that?
 
And the MOST important part of the video above. WELL lookie there, they are not putting the ballots into sealed blackbox electronic scanners, but secure CLEAR bins. Vastly superior to our elections I'd say.

 

Firmly propagandized I see. The dude is nuts and runs around with bombs dropping around him. You can't fake that, at least not without huge budgets like Hollywood.
 
pmbug said:
I'm not entirely sure I understand the full context for what is happening here, but I get that at least some people in Georgia aren't happy with Russian overlords.
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I'm sure one could find at least some people on either side that don't agree with their side's politics. To me that would only seem normal.

The question is, what percentage of the population do they represent.

What does a super-majority of the people there think about it?

We have no way of actually knowing for sure, but I do know that enough of the people there do not agree with those in West Ukraine to take up arms against them for the past eight years.
If it were only a small percentage, they'd have been beaten seven years ago.
 
Looks like Russia was able to intercept and decode conversations between MI6 and the Pentagon. ...
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Based upon what? What is the source for this claim?

Def sec Shoigu the next day confirms to the media that they have double verified evidence of the dirty bomb and have presented it to hie respective counterparts in the Western nations that are possibly involved.
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If they actually have evidence, perhaps they should be sharing it with the UN or IAEA. Hell, make it public. Show the world. Also, the italicized part makes no sense at all. They have "double verified evidence", but don't know who is involved?
 
Voodoo said:
Firmly propagandized I see. ...
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You or me?

Voodoo said:
... The dude is nuts ...
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I'll take your word for it. You accuse me of being firmly propagandized, yet when confronted with the fact that a source of information you champion is a known propagandist and has been caught (more than once!) red handed staging (ie. faking) videos, it fails to pierce your cognitive bias.
 

Dude, because some Factcheck.org says it does not make something "fact". I've watched some of his videos and I think a pretty good judge of people. He has thousands of people in the videos, and although I can't understand Ukrainian or Russian, the translations appear accurate. He also gets excited/nervous when things happen when a bomb hits nearby, you just can't fake things like that very easily.

I'm sure he had some pre-planning for some of his videos as you don't just walk into a war-zone. Nor do I watch all of his stuff but fake it is not.
 

You have fallen for the exact trap that the propagandists use. Always discredit the source. Find one thing you can possibly bend to make them look bad and then try to discredit everything they have done. Same thing they use when they bring out an "anonymous" women to attack say Hershel Walker or the SCOUTUS judge.

Try to watch/or read when it better suits the content and poke holes with logic. If you can show me something in the video which appears fake or questionable then feel free to point those out. I see a possible election that is better than the one I'm gonna be voting in here in a couple weeks.
 
Voodoo said:
Dude, because some Factcheck.org says it ....
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You obviously didn't read the criticism that you are dismissing/criticizing. Cognitive bias is the death of critical thinking.
 
Voodoo said:
... Always discredit the source. Find one thing ...
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There is no point in wasting time reviewing work for possible nuggets of fact when the source is a known propagandist and proven to fabricate lies multiple times.
 
why would this be a problem?

Putin ushers in Multipolar World, 'we are standing on a historic frontier.' Historic Q & A. U/1​

32m
 
Hey, lookey here! Putin's speech in text so folks can read, or listen if you have a spare 3:30:00

Valdai International Discussion Club meeting​

The President took part in the final plenary session of the 19th meeting of the Valdai International Discussion Club.
October 27, 2022

Valdai International Discussion Club meeting

The President took part in the final plenary session of the 19th meeting of the Valdai International Discussion Club.
en.kremlin.ru
 

'No room for old dreams', German president says of Russia ties

Russia's invasion of Ukraine has caused an "epochal break" in Germany's ties with Moscow and the war has shattered former Soviet president Mikhail Gorbachev's dream of a "common European home", President Frank-Walter Steinmeier said on Friday.
www.reuters.com
 
...from the Valdai International Discussion Club speech.
October 27, 2022

Fyodor Lukyanov: You have repeatedly said and written in your policy article that we are one people. Have you changed your mind after a year?

Vladimir Putin: No, of course not. And how can this be changed? This is a historical fact.

Russian statehood became established on our territories in the 9th century, first in Novgorod, then in Kiev, and then they grew together. It is one nation. People spoke the same language, Old Russian, and changes only started to emerge, I believe, in the 14th or 15th century under Poland’s influence because the western areas of the Russian state became parts of other countries. This is where changes came from.

Of course, I have already said that every ethnicity goes through different processes in its development. If part of this ethnicity decides at a certain point that it has achieved a level when it becomes a different ethnicity, one can only respect it, of course.

But this process did not happen all on its own. First of all, as I said, it happened because some of Old Russian lands in the west became parts of other states, for a whole number of reasons.

Those states started promoting their interests. The lands that became part of Poland experienced a strong Polish influence, and so on. The language started to change. I already said that, when Ukraine was joining Russia, letters were written to Warsaw and Moscow. We have archives. Those letters said: “We, Russian Orthodox Christians, would like to address you with the following matter…” They asked Moscow to accept them into Russia and asked Poland to consider their interests and their Orthodox Christian customs. And yet, they called themselves “Russian Orthodox Christians.” I did not make this up. It was part of the nation that we now call Ukrainians.

Yes, then everything started happening according to its own laws. An enormous Russian Empire was built. European countries tried and partially succeeded in creating a barrier between Europe and the Russian Empire using the principle known since the ancient times: divide and conquer. They started making attempts to divide the united Russian nation. It began in the 19th century and eventually grew to a bigger scale, supported mainly by the West. Of course, they tried to cultivate certain sentiments in people and some even liked it, when it comes to historical and language aspects.

Of course, those sentiments were exploited exactly for the purpose I mentioned, to divide and conquer. It is nothing out of the ordinary but they certainly achieved some of their goals. And subsequently, it actually grew into cooperation with Hitler during WWII, when Ukrainian collaborators were used in campaigns to exterminate Russians, Poles, Jews and Belarusians. It is a well-known historical fact: killing squads assigned Bandera followers with the dirtiest and bloodiest jobs. It is all part of our history. But it is also a historical fact that Russians and Ukrainians are essentially one ethnicity.

Fyodor Lukyanov: So what we are witnessing is a civil war with a portion of our own people.

Vladimir Putin: Partly, yes. Unfortunately, we ended up in different states for a number of reasons. Above all, because when they were creating the Soviet Union after the collapse of the [Russian] empire – I have covered this in my articles and mentioned it publicly more than once – the Bolshevik leadership at the time decided – in order to appease the nationalist-minded Bolsheviks originally from Ukraine – to give them some originally Russian historical lands without asking the people who lived there. They let them have all of Malorossiya (Little Russia), the entire Black Sea region, and all of Donbass. At first, they decided to make Donbass part of Russia, but then a delegation from Ukraine came to see Vladimir Lenin who then summoned a representative from Donbass and told him the Donbass matter should be reconsidered, and it was, with the Donbass going to Ukraine.

In this sense, Ukraine, of course, is an artificially created state. All the more so as after WWII – this is also a historical fact – Stalin suddenly made several Polish, Hungarian, and Romanian territories part of Ukraine, thus taking these lands away from these countries. He gave the Poles, who were not part of the Nazi coalition, some of the eastern German lands. These are well-known historical facts. This is how today’s Ukraine was created.

I just had a thought that, in fairness, Russia, which created today's Ukraine, could have been the only real and serious guarantor of Ukraine’s statehood, sovereignty, and territorial integrity.

Fyodor Lukyanov: I remember there was a discussion about the guarantors back in the spring, but then it all went away.

This may be a rhetorical question given that hostilities and much more are underway, but you and the Russian officials have said on multiple occasions that the special operation is going according to plan. What is the plan? Truth be told, this is not very clear to members of society. What is the plan?

Vladimir Putin: You see, I said at the outset, on the day the operation started, that the most important thing for us is to help Donbass. I have already mentioned this, and if we had acted differently, we would not have been able to deploy our Armed Forces on both sides of Donbass. This is my first point.

Second, the Lugansk People’s Republic has been fully liberated. Military activities related to the Donetsk Republic are underway. Sure enough, when our troops approached it both from the south and the north, it became clear that the people residing on these historical Novorossiya (New Russia) territories see their future as part of Russia. How could we not respond to that?

Hence, we are witnesses to the events that have unfolded. They arose in the course and as a logical follow-up to the situation that has been taking shape up to this point. But the plan was there, and the goal is to help the people of Donbass. This is the premise under which we are operating. Of course, I am aware of the General Staff’s plans, but I do not think we should be discussing the details.

Fyodor Lukyanov: Thank you.

Friends, I have satisfied my curiosity by monopolising everything. Now, let us give the floor to those with questions.

Let us begin. Ivan Safranchuk.

Ivan Safranchuk: Ivan Safranchuk, MGIMO University.

You said that we have a very important decade ahead in the development of the world and our country. But I’m left with the impression that a certain door exists that has led us to this decade.

I have a question about this door.

Nuclear rhetoric has intensified greatly as of late. Ukraine has moved from irresponsible statements to the practical preparation of a nuclear provocation; representatives of the United States and the United Kingdom are making statements with suggestions of the possible use of nuclear weapons.

Biden, let’s say, speaks about nuclear Armageddon, and straight away there are comments in the US that there is nothing to fear. At the same time, the United States is hurrying to deploy modernised tactical nuclear bombs in Europe. It looks like they are rattling the sabre while refusing to acknowledge the lessons of the Cuban Missile Crisis.

Mr President, could you please comment, is it true that the world is on the verge of the possible use of nuclear weapons? How will Russia act in these circumstances, given that it is a responsible nuclear state?

Thank you.

Vladimir Putin: Look, as long as nuclear weapons exist, there will always be a danger that they could be used. This is the first thing.

Second, the goal of the current fuss around such threats and the potential use of nuclear weapons is very primitive, and I would probably be not mistaken when I explain what this is about.
 
my favorite deceit in this operation are the ridiculous stories about israel and ukraine being at odds. pure rubbish being put out to trick the normie

homeland 1.0, izzy, and homeland 2.0, ukr, are the same team. not unlikely all of this is at the behest of 1.0 - like the wars, debasements, overthrows in the mid-east are
 
The CEO of Thompson Reuters is James Smith. He is a board member of Pfizer, and a member of the World Economic Forum.
 
Bigfoot said:
The CEO of Thompson Reuters is James Smith. He is a board member of Pfizer, and a member of the World Economic Forum.
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And what does that have to do with my post? Did the German not say what was quoted? Was something misrepresented?
 
pmbug said:
And what does that have to do with my post? Did the German not say what was quoted? Was something misrepresented?
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Reuters slants their reporting in accordance to the agenda. Their positions on all issues completely align with that of the WEF. Unlike this forum, Reuters never gives both sides of the story. What they do is intentionally omit important pieces of information in order to craft a narrative.
 
Joe King said:
Here is the commentary on Ukraine that I thought I'd never see.

You know it's bad when Scotty starts talkin' about war instead of cars. Lol


He actually offers some information about Ukraine that I had never heard before.



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Yep, A side of Scotty seldom seen. Very good production and information. IMO
 
That the US will deny, obfuscate, and then ignore.

=====================================

Russia presents final draft to the UNSC on US violations of the BTWC.

An absolutely stunning accumulation of all the evidence gathered from the Special Military Operation in Ukraine.

Hunter Biden’s Metabiota, Black and Veatch, negligence of deadly pathogens, drones equipped with aerosol canisters to disperse airborne water particles containing pathogens, aerial release of infected mosquito armies.

ABSOLUTE MUST READ!

Final Draft on US Biological Activity in Ukraine Presented to UNSC

MASSIVE statements from Russian Permanent Representative to the the UN pertaining to the US Biolabs in Ukraine. It appears that a formal investigation is inevitable. Today United Nations Security Council (UNSC) carried out debate on the possible enactment of Article VI of the Biological Weapons...
bioclandestine.substack.com
 
[Forwarded from Vanessa Beeley]
Important analysis. You usually have to be a UK Column member for Extra but UKC have released this report because it needs to be seen. The "dirty bomb" in Ukraine, who is behind it and when it might be produced as a false flag.
 

'Massive' drone attack on Black Sea Fleet - Russia​


IMAGE SOURCE,REUTERS
The Russian Navy at the entrance to the port city of Sevastopol in 2014

By Hugo Bachega in Kyiv and James Gregory in London
BBC News

Ukraine has carried out a "massive" drone attack on the Black Sea Fleet in the Crimean port city of Sevastopol, damaging one warship, Russia says.

Nine drones were used, a top official said. Ukraine has not commented.

Without providing evidence, Russia accused British troops of being involved in Saturday's attack - and in blowing up gas pipelines last month.
In its response, the UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) said Russia was "peddling false claims of an epic scale".

Russia said the ships targeted in Saturday's attack were involved in the internationally-brokered deal to allow grain exports from Ukrainian ports and hours later announced that it was suspending its participation in it.

The attack comes as Ukrainian troops successfully retake territory occupied by Russian troops since they launched their invasion on 24 February.

Russia has replied by launching large-scale attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure, particularly on the country's energy grid.

Crimea was annexed by Russia from Ukraine in 2014 and is extremely symbolic for Russian President Vladimir Putin.

In recent weeks, several attacks have hit the peninsula, where the Russian army has built up a large presence.

Sevastopol is the largest city in the region and home to Russia's Black Sea fleet.

Mikhail Razvozhaev, the Russian-installed governor of the city, said Russia's navy had repelled the latest attack - the "most massive" on the city since February.

He said that all unmanned aerial vehicles (UAV) had been shot down and no "civilian infrastructure" had been damaged.

At least one vessel sustained minor damage, the Russian ministry of defence said.

"In the course of repelling a terrorist attack on the outer roadstead of Sevastopol, the use of naval weapons and naval aviation of the Black Sea Fleet destroyed four marine unmanned vehicles, three more devices were destroyed on the internal roadstead," a statement from the ministry read.

The Ukrainian government rarely comments on claims made by Russian authorities in Crimea, although senior officials often celebrate incidents in the peninsula.

'Massive' drone attack on Black Sea Fleet - Russia

Russia also accuses the UK of helping Ukrainians in their attacks - a claim the UK dismisses as "false".
www.bbc.com
 

Musk, bird is free, Starlink is on. Prague massive protests. Greece, Poland; German reparations. U/1​

34m

Crimea attack. Russia MoD claims UK behind Nord Stream. Pirate cash for Serbia. EU warns Elon. U/2​

30m
 

Russia pulls out of 'grain deal.' UK denies Russian Nord Stream sabotage claims. U/3​

8m
 

US Sends Fewer Arms to Ukraine as Russia Prepares its Next Big Move​

21m
 
Goldhedge said:
MoD Russia on Telegram

View attachment 1906
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That's another thing the MSM totally omits. Sevastopol. The Russians have had a naval base there since before the Cold War. Can you imagine if the shoe was on the other foot, and a Russian-backed proxy army attacked a jurisdiction with an American military base?
 
The timing of the invasion in February is curious. I know Putin was going to wait until after the Chinese Olympics. Why did Putin wait so long to make this move after all the vegetable was in office for some time already. Not like Ukraine ever stopped shelling the Donbass they have for over 8 years.
Is it possible that over half the US military is considered obese?
 
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