Ukraine

[SongSungAu]

I enjoyed this Scott Ritter interview.

Scott RItter - Ukraine Russia War Latest (14 min 04 sec):​

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Published on Oct 20, 2022 by Judge Napolitano - Judging Freedom​

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[SongSungAu]

Col. Douglas Macgregor is a breath of fresh air.

Playing at War in Ukraine - Col. Douglas Macgregor (23 min 58 sec):​

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Published on Oct 25, 2022 by Judge Napolitano - Judging Freedom​

Playing at War in Ukraine
Douglas Macgregor, Oct 24, 2022

Playing at War in Ukraine - The American Conservative

Committing U.S. forces without a declaration of war would be disastrous.

www.theamericanconservative.com

 

[Viking]

Ukrainian forces have also committed international humanitarian law violations in some cases, including two incidents that qualify as war crimes.

 

[Goldhedge]

Funny thing about Russia being asked to 'produce' evidence.

The last time they produced reams of evidence for the bio-weapons labs at the UN the US walked out.

Saying something about they wouldn't dignify the accusations, or some such nonsense....

 

[pmbug]

... The last time they produced reams of evidence for the bio-weapons labs ...

Russia Is Lying About Evidence of Bioweapons Labs in Ukraine, Russian Biologists Say

A careful look at the evidence Russia cites for its claim that bioweapons were being developed in Ukraine has been largely missing from global speculation.

theintercept.com

 

[TheRealZed]

Truth is the first victim of war... honestly how do we know any of this is true? We pick our sources and choose to weight our trust one way or the other. Reality is they are both lying out their a$$e$!

 

[SongSungAu]

Washington's Whoppers on the War in Ukraine

Washington's Whoppers on the War in Ukraine - The American Conservative

Militant defenders of Ukraine might be surprised by the country's anti-democratic tendencies.

www.theamericanconservative.com

excerpt:

Two deceptive arguments in U.S. propaganda are so egregious that they stand out as gigantic whoppers. The first whopper is that Russia’s war against Ukraine was entirely unprovoked; nothing Ukraine, the United States, or NATO did, this story goes, threatened Russia or contributed in the slightest to the current bloody tragedy. The second whopper is that Ukraine is a liberal democratic country whose mere existence as a model in Russia’s neighborhood terrifies Vladimir Putin and his inner circle of authoritarian oligarchs.​

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...​

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Criticisms of Russia’s military action as brutal and over-the-top are entirely justified. The argument that it was utterly unprovoked, however, is misleading at best and an outright falsehood at worst. Respected analysts had warned for more than a quarter century that expanding NATO eastward to Russia’s border would turn out badly, no matter who ruled in Moscow, since the move was inherently menacing and intruded on important Russian interests. Yet, multiple U.S. administrations casually spurned those recommendations for caution.​

 

[Joe King]

Truth is the first victim of war... honestly how do we know any of this is true?

This is why I don't really follow too much from either side about what is going on there, as we have no real way of verifying any of it.

It's simply not worth risking WW3 over trying to protect what is widely regarded as the most corrupt nation in Europe.

Do I like the fact they got invaded? Heck no.
....but if we're allowed to invade other nations in what we see as our own national interest, so can any other nation.

We set that prescident in Vietnam, Iraq, and Libya.
Our gov officials looked us directly in the eye and lied to us regarding all three of those nations.


I'm more interested in knowing why so many of our career politicians had relatives working in Ukraine for huge salaries in industries they had little to no experience in.

It reeked of a kick-back racket.

 

[SongSungAu]

The latest from Jacob Dreizin...

Return of the Living Check​

Return of the Living Check - TheDreizinReport.com

Folks, the way it's going, the Ukraine won't be the only one getting blank checks. But first... So much for "the smartest people in Congress." The "We love the Ukraine, but the U.S. must talk to Russia to end the war" letter to Brandon's people, signed by the Democrat "Platoon" in the House...

thedreizinreport.com

excerpt:

Folks, the way it’s going, the Ukraine won’t be the only one getting blank checks.​

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But first… So much for “the smartest people in Congress.”​

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The “We love the Ukraine, but the U.S. must talk to Russia to end the war” letter to Brandon’s people, signed by the Democrat “Platoon” in the House…..​

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……has been OFFICIALLY retracted and disowned by its lead signatory.​

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All it took was less than 24 hours.​

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Despite a dreamy, mushy, syrupy, highly favorable roll-out in the Amazon Post, the reaction from Botoxic (Pelosi) must have been so toxic…..​

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…..that Rep. Jayapal had to say it was all a mistake, the letter was never “vetted”, and in fact…..​

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…..we shouldn’t talk to Russia until after Russia has lost the war (which is Ukraine’s position, and thus indirectly, Uncle Sam’s as well.)​

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What’s really funny is, the letter was fully vetted.​

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[Bigfoot]

The latest from Jacob Dreizin...

Return of the Living Check​

Return of the Living Check - TheDreizinReport.com

Folks, the way it's going, the Ukraine won't be the only one getting blank checks. But first... So much for "the smartest people in Congress." The "We love the Ukraine, but the U.S. must talk to Russia to end the war" letter to Brandon's people, signed by the Democrat "Platoon" in the House...

thedreizinreport.com

excerpt:

Folks, the way it’s going, the Ukraine won’t be the only one getting blank checks.​

​

But first… So much for “the smartest people in Congress.”​

​

The “We love the Ukraine, but the U.S. must talk to Russia to end the war” letter to Brandon’s people, signed by the Democrat “Platoon” in the House…..​

​

……has been OFFICIALLY retracted and disowned by its lead signatory.​

​

All it took was less than 24 hours.​

​

Despite a dreamy, mushy, syrupy, highly favorable roll-out in the Amazon Post, the reaction from Botoxic (Pelosi) must have been so toxic…..​

​

…..that Rep. Jayapal had to say it was all a mistake, the letter was never “vetted”, and in fact…..​

​

…..we shouldn’t talk to Russia until after Russia has lost the war (which is Ukraine’s position, and thus indirectly, Uncle Sam’s as well.)​

​

What’s really funny is, the letter was fully vetted.​

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How brave of them.

 

[WillA2]

Truth is the first victim of war... honestly how do we know any of this is true? We pick our sources and choose to weight our trust one way or the other. Reality is they are both lying out their a$$e$!

Probably, but the people pushing this war have a strong history of living every time their lips move.

So looking who's lining up on whatever sides can help sorting out the probable horse shit.

 

[searcher]

Truth is the first victim of war...

Lotta truth here but I consider the first victims of war to be the innocent people simply going about their daily lives and trying to survive.

People who don't give two shits about politics or some power-hungry megalomaniac's insane lust for power and self-aggrandizing glory. People who simply want to live their lives in peace and provide for their families. Innocent people whose lives are taken from them, whose bodies, homes and property are destroyed on the whim of a lunatic.

Really sad.

Imagine if there was a way to outlaw war and to immediately get rid of any power crazed p-o-s who would dare to even think about using war as a means to satisfy some insane idea that pops into their head.

Maybe an organization like the one described in Klaatu's speech in the final scene of The Day the Earth Stood Still.........



Won't happen in my lifetime but maybe someday.

jm2c

 

[Goldhedge]

Russia Is Lying About Evidence of Bioweapons Labs in Ukraine, Russian Biologists Say

A careful look at the evidence Russia cites for its claim that bioweapons were being developed in Ukraine has been largely missing from global speculation.

theintercept.com

They never looked at the evidence, so how would they know?

 

[Goldhedge]

Do I like the fact they got invaded? Heck no.
....but if we're allowed to invade other nations in what we see as our own national interest, so can any other nation.

You don't like that they got 'invaded', but I guess was ok that for the last 8 years the west Ukraine has been bombing the east killing 15,000 civilians they call 'separatists'?

Not picking a fight, just pointing out the 'error' in language the MSM has foisted upon the world.

The real 'truth' is Putin is 'liberating' the east and if the west doesn't mind it's manners he's going to go all the way to Poland.

 

[Goldhedge]

The latest from Jacob Dreizin...

Return of the Living Check

Cancel culture cancelling culture.

Eventually, they eat their own...

Thinking people know they wrote that letter because they want to 'appear' to be for peace all the while voting $ for war.

 

[Evl Bnkr]

Lotta truth here but I consider the first victims of war to be the innocent people simply going about their daily lives and trying to survive.

People who don't give two shits about politics or some power-hungry megalomaniac's insane lust for power and self-aggrandizing glory. People who simply want to live their lives in peace and provide for their families. Innocent people whose lives are taken from them, whose bodies, homes and property are destroyed on the whim of a lunatic.

Really sad.

Imagine if there was a way to outlaw war and to immediately get rid of any power crazed p-o-s who would dare to even think about using war as a means to satisfy some insane idea that pops into their head.

Maybe an organization like the one described in Klaatu's speech in the final scene of The Day the Earth Stood Still.........



Won't happen in my lifetime but maybe someday.

jm2c

Agreed, but I'm not sure if what you were describing is Ukraine's unrelenting military assault on the innocent citizens of eastern Ukraine over the past several years or Putin's response to the violation of international agreements???

Either way, it would be nice to end the use of large scale deadly force, period. Von Clausewitz described war in "On War" as a continuation of policy by other means. Unfortunately when people are involved and they do not/can not get their way through policy, e.g. political wranglings, they resort to war. Ever since Thucydides put pen to paper and chronicled the Peloponnesian Wars (430-410 BC, Athens vs Sparta - the battle for Greek Hegemony), it has been the way of mankind.

 

[cheka]

never forget -- russia/putin asked for a meeting with US/nato to discuss/negotiate security for the region before invading homeland 2.0

(US/nato) turned him down. they were hellbent to provoke russia into defending themselves so that (they) could do all of the evil sh-t they are doing now

(biden admin) picked up where (obomba admin) left off --- the coup in ukraine removed the elected president and installed (their) puppets

they slowed down during trump....until (they) stole those elections. this was one of the big prizes of stealing them - weaponizing ukraine and attacking russia came right back

people are waking up to (their) ukr scam. 57 repugs voted against the 40 billion in money laundering aid for ukr

 

[Goldhedge]

It's called theft... reminds me of Rumsfeld telling us Oil from Iraq will pay for the war...

EU Ursula, seize not freeze. Boris: Cultural Learnings of America. 30 DEMS retract peace letter. U/1​

26m

 

[Goldhedge]

[Forwarded from Vanessa Beeley]
An ABC News investigative journalist disappeared six months ago. He seems to have known a lot about American aims in Ukraine — RT World News

An ABC News investigative journalist disappeared six months ago. He seems to have known a lot about American aims in Ukraine

Has a potential whistleblower been 'disappeared' or is there another explanation?

www.rt.com

 

[searcher]

Agreed, but I'm not sure if what you were describing is Ukraine's unrelenting military assault on the innocent citizens of eastern Ukraine over the past several years or Putin's response to the violation of international agreements???

Neither.

War...........in general.

 

[Goldhedge]

never forget -- russia/putin asked for a meeting with US/nato to discuss/negotiate security for the region before invading homeland 2.0

(US/nato) turned him down. they were hellbent to provoke russia into defending themselves so that (they) could do all of the evil sh-t they are doing now

(biden admin) picked up where (obomba admin) left off --- the coup in ukraine removed the elected president and installed (their) puppets

they slowed down during trump....until (they) stole those elections. this was one of the big prizes of stealing them - weaponizing ukraine and attacking russia came right back

people are waking up to (their) ukr scam. 57 repugs voted against the 40 billion in money laundering aid for ukr

From what I've gleaned from listening to the 'other' side (vs the MSM propaganda) is that the Ukraine situation was in the works decades ago.

Trump exposed it as he exposed so many things when he asked Zelenski in a 'perfect' phone call to 'look into' it. We all heard/saw the politicians go ape shit over that. They went so far as to impeach Trump over it.

That's how you know who's telling the truth, they react to the 'telling' of truth in odd and unusual ways.

 

[Goldhedge]

Turn on CC for the truth. This isn't a Hollywood scripted testimony....

A Ukrainian Lady tells what she REALLY thinks about the war in Ukraine.​

2m

 

[pmbug]

... The argument that it was utterly unprovoked, however, is misleading at best and an outright falsehood at worst. ...

I suppose that depends upon your perspective of what a provocation is and whether or not you think Ukraine is actually a sovereign country with self determination and within it's rights to choose it's own economic and defense partners. I mentioned before (more than once now?) that Putin was not going to allow Ukraine to turn to the West when his buddy got deposed. Nothing I'm reading here has changed that conviction.

They never looked at the evidence, so how would they know?

I take it you didn't actually read the article. It reports on Russian scientists dismantling the propaganda. Yes, they looked at it - and explained how what the Russian government was presenting wasn't what they were claiming it to be.

 

[pmbug]

...
Krasovsky’s vile insistence that any Ukrainian children who complain about being occupied by Russia should be drowned or burned alive prompted condemnation from Dmytro Kuleba, Ukraine’s foreign minister, former U.S. Ambassador to Russia Michael McFaul, former NSA contractor Edward Snowden, and the editor in chief of RT itself, Margarita Simonyan, who said the state-controlled broadcaster was suspending Krasovsky. Nonetheless, in the two days since Simonyan has seemingly started to lay the groundwork for his potential reinstatement.

Simonyan repeatedly retweeted and reposted on Telegram various versions of Krasovsky’s lukewarm “apology,” none of which were directed at Ukrainians. ...
...
Krasovsky’s apologies to his RT colleagues didn’t address the fact that the interview was pre-recorded and edited before it was released. It was publicly available for two days before being translated into English, to the shock and dismay of the global community.

RT apparently had no objection to the commentary and reacted only after it prompted a global outcry. In a way, the situation is reminiscent of an incident in 2014, when an episode of an RT show called Truthseeker contained deliberate disinformation and sick fantasies, falsely alleging that Ukrainian troops “literally crucify babies in seized towns, force mothers to watch.” The show was taken down only in response to international censure.
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Simonyan is not the only one defending Krasovsky. Writer Zakhar Prilepin, who visits the occupied regions of Ukraine often and makes frequent appearances on state TV, complained about the unduly “harsh” and judgmental reaction to Krasovsky’s suggestion that Ukrainian children should be drowned or burned. RT commentator Egor Kholmogorov agreed with Krasovsky’s offensive commentary, remarking that any Ukrainians who call Russian troops occupants—like the children mentioned in the video—should indeed be killed.

Political scientist Mikhail Shpir took aim not only at Krasovsky’s accusers but at the head of RT herself. Recalling Simonyan’s comments that she would rather die in a nuclear war than to accept Russia’s defeat in Ukraine, Shpir noted that both Russian and Ukrainian children would perish in such a scenario. He wrote on his Telegram channel: “What’s wrong with what Krasovsky said? Why can [Margarita] Simonyan say it, but he can’t?”
...

RT Boss Backs Host Who Wants to Drown Ukrainian Kids

Margarita Simonyan says it’s her duty as a Russian and Orthodox Christian to forgive Anton Krasovsky after he “repented” for his vile comments. Could a reinstatement be far off?

www.thedailybeast.com

 

[Goldhedge]

I take it you didn't actually read the article. It reports on Russian scientists dismantling the propaganda. Yes, they looked at it - and explained how what the Russian government was presenting wasn't what they were claiming it to be.

Perused the first couple of lines...

AT CONSIDERABLE RISK to their own safety,​

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these outlandish claims from Russian defense officials​

That smacks of propaganda, i.e., here's how you need to think of this...? that kind of turned me off and made me think this was a made up story.

Then it goes on with even more rhetoric like that.

Right from the gitgo they make it sound as if Russia is the crazy one here. The article reminds me of the Lancet who, for 3 whole months 'gushed' about HCQ being a deathly cocktail and even fabricated a 'peer reviewed' paper only to pull it a few short days after publishing... ['peer review' is the achilles heel of the professional class]

If only the MSM was the 4th pillar keeping everyone honest instead of getting in bed with prostitutes...

Not saying there was or wasn't bioweapons being developed - that remains to be proven, but the fact is the US has been encroaching upon Russia for the last decade or more. You don't need a crystal ball to see that. Never mind that the last 60 years of US involvement in colonizing the rest of the world, er... I mean bringing democracy to the rest of the world has been the MO of the US.

Now that we know Covid was created, and recently "improved" (to be 80% effective at killing), why is it such a stretch to believe the Russians didn't find evidence that implicates the west and why is the US/west so hell bent on "saving Ukraine" by destroying it in a proxy war with Russia?

Heck, they impeached Trump over a phone call... what are they trying to hide there???

 

[Goldhedge]

Dr. Steve Turley painting a picture of reality.

Is This FINALLY the END of the WAR?​

7m

 

[pmbug]

... that kind of turned me off and made me think this was a made up story.
...
Right from the gitgo they make it sound as if Russia is the crazy one here. ...

I'm quite aware that the article isn't going to sit well with your bias. There are plenty of facts in the article worth considering. It's quite a long and detailed article. I'll quote a bit from the beginning:

...
The first Russian biologist to make his analysis of the evidence widely known was Eugene Lewitin, who holds advanced degrees in biology from Moscow State University and GosNIIgenetika, a biotechnology research institute. The documents from Ukraine, Lewitin wrote in an open letter posted on Facebook and Change.org, do “not imply any development of biological weapons or even the use of particularly dangerous pathogens in the laboratories. The list of destroyed strains published by RIA Novosti and other Russian media outlets contains not a single particularly dangerous strain. The list contains only strains common to microbiological and even more so to epidemiological laboratories.”

More than 800 signatories endorsed Lewitin’s letter when it was transformed into a petition from Russian biologists urging Russian journalists to stop repeating the government’s “false, absolutely groundless and hatred-inciting statements about allegedly found evidence of the development of biological weapons in Ukrainian laboratories.”

The first set of Ukrainian documents to be made public by the Russian military were published by the Russian government news agency RIA Novosti on March 6. Those documents were orders from Ukraine’s health minister, issued on the second day of the Russian invasion, directing labs in two cities, Kharkiv and Poltava, to destroy collections of bacterial pathogens used for research.

Given the subsequent Russian shelling of Kharkiv, the Ukrainian effort to ensure that an attack on the lab there could not cause the accidental release of bacteria seems prudent. But Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov, the Russian defense ministry spokesperson, told the state news agency that the attempt to secure the labs was itself evidence that Ukrainian and American scientists had been secretly plotting to weaponize dangerous pathogens. The destruction of the pathogens listed on orders sent to the labs, Konashenkov said, was a desperate effort “to conceal any traces of the military-biological program financed by the U.S. Department of Defense in Ukraine.”

At a defense ministry briefing in Moscow the next day, Lt. Gen. Igor Kirillov — the head of the Russian military’s radiation, chemical, and biological protection force — displayed these documents on a huge screen. The only possible explanation for “why the samples were disposed of in such haste,” Kirillov insisted, must have been to prevent Russian experts from discovering “that synthetic biology methods were being tested there to enhance the microorganisms’ pathogenic properties.”

Kirillov also stated, without evidence, that a swine flu outbreak in 2007 and increased cases of measles, rubella, diphtheria, and tuberculosis in Ukraine had somehow been caused by biological research at U.S.-funded labs in Ukraine and the former Soviet republic of Georgia.

At a second briefing three days later, he claimed that documents on public health projects to detect and monitor animal diseases in Ukraine — including coronaviruses in bats, Crimean-Congo hemorrhagic fever and hantavirus in ticks and rodents, and avian flu in ducks that migrate from Ukraine to Russia — were proof of a sinister plot to send infected animals to Russia. He even speculated that a document showing that researchers in Ukraine had sent blood samples to labs in Australia was proof of a secret Pentagon effort to study “Slavic DNA,” in order to construct a biological weapon that would infect only ethnic Russians.

Kirillov also claimed that in a joint Ukrainian-American project called R-781, “bats are considered as carriers of potential biological weapons agents.” However, the document describing that project, which was projected on the big screen behind the general, just outlined a proposal for an expert from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta to collaborate with a veterinary medicine specialist in Kharkiv and a researcher in Tbilisi on routine disease surveillance of bats in Ukraine and Georgia, including testing for bacterial and viral infections (such as coronaviruses) and performing genomic sequencing. The proposal had nothing to do with biological weapons research, and the CDC told The Intercept that the project did not receive funding and never even began.

Some of the documents cast by Kirillov as evidence of biological weapons research actually concerned the Ukrainian health ministry’s cooperation with German experts from BNITM, the Bernhard Nocht Institute for Tropical Medicine in Hamburg, to improve surveillance and diagnosis of diseases like dengue fever and Crimean-Congo hemorrhagic fever.

In a statement sent to The Intercept, the institute rejected the Russian claims.

“The BNITM has never and will never work directly or indirectly on bio weapons,” the statement said. For the past six years, the BNITM has instead been working with public health officials in Ukraine to investigate “seroprevalence, the existence of antibodies, on various infectious diseases occurring in this region. The aim of the project is and was to enable the country to do diagnoses on antibodies itself.” The institute added that its project is part of the German government’s effort to improve global biosecurity through the “minimization of biological risks emanating from highly hazardous pathogens in 25 countries.”

Konashenkov, the defense ministry spokesperson, also claimed that the documents from Ukraine showed that “certain experiments were carried out with samples of coronavirus in bats. The goal of this and other Pentagon-funded biological studies in Ukraine was the creation of a mechanism for the covert spread of deadly pathogens.”

On March 10, Russian defense ministry spokesman Igor Konashenkov claimed, falsely, that documents seized in Ukraine indicated that U.S. and Ukrainian researchers were plotting to use birds to covertly send deadly pathogens to Russia pic.twitter.com/83nNA897kc
— Robert Mackey (@RobertMackey) March 17, 2022

Konashenkov additionally stated as a matter of fact something for which none of the documents presented at the briefing backs up: that American-financed studies of bird, bat, and reptile pathogens planned for later this year would include experiments on the ability of the animals to be used to covertly transmit weaponized African swine fever and anthrax.

When Russian news outlets repeated these claims, Lewitin, the veteran Russian biologist, wrote that they had been duped into printing what he called “deliberately false information,” fed to them by the military, about what was in the documents. Even reporters for state-run outlets, Lewitin said, have a duty to study what the state calls proof and consult experts to make sure official claims about science are accurate.

By way of example, Lewitin, who has a Ph.D. in genetics, pointed to “the absolutely wild idea of the existence of special ‘DNA of the Slavs,’” which could be used to target ethnic Russians with a biological weapon. That, he said, “is nonsense” that echoes “German Nazi propaganda.”
...

 

[Joe King]

People who don't give two shits about politics or some power-hungry megalomaniac's insane lust for power and self-aggrandizing glory. People who simply want to live their lives in peace and provide for their families. Innocent people whose lives are taken from them, whose bodies, homes and property are destroyed on the whim of a lunatic.

You've well described our plight under the Bidet.

You don't like that they got 'invaded', but I guess was ok that for the last 8 years the west Ukraine has been bombing the east killing 15,000 civilians they call 'separatists'?

I don't like that, either.

I said back in '14 that should just divide the nation in two.

Imho, it's stupid to fight a war with the intention of forcing people to be a part of a political system that they do not want to be a part of.

We (US) certainly should not support that when our own Founding Docs declare that people have a Right to alter or abolish their gov if they believe it has become destructive to their well being.

. I mentioned before (more than once now?) that Putin was not going to allow Ukraine to turn to the West when his buddy got deposed. Nothing I'm reading here has changed that conviction.

Why did we not want Cuba doing that 60 years ago?

Because we saw it as a threat, perhaps?

Would we "allow" Mexico or Canada to turn to the East? Ie: strongly align themselves with either Russia or China, and against us?
Or would we pitch a major bitch about it?

Is it ok for us to invade other nations for reasons we see as being in our own national interests?
We've certainly done that. Is it right?

If so, imho every nation has that same Right. We bitch about it when others do it, but expect a blind eye turned when we do it.

 

[Goldhedge]

That's quite a quote, but it concisely pars the screed down to the actual 'facts' of the story.

More than 800 signatories endorsed Lewitin’s letter when it was transformed into a petition from Russian biologists urging Russian journalists to stop repeating the government’s “false, absolutely groundless and hatred-inciting statements about allegedly found evidence of the development of biological weapons in Ukrainian laboratories.”

But it's statements like these that make it read like propaganda... It sounds like they're refuting Trumps claim the election was stolen.

More than 800 signatories... on a petition? Is that supposed to mean they're 'experts'... trying to convince me to change my mind, or did they go by the local mall and ask folks to sign a petition like they do in the US?

 

[Goldbrix]

Kiev In PANIC Over Signs Of Waning Western Support​

(Democrats send letter to Bidet then take it back. Letter originally want Bidet to rethink plans for Ukraine)gb

 

[pmbug]

USA (CIA) has done real shitty stuff all over the western hemisphere (especially to Central America). No argument from me there.

But there is a difference between what the USA has done in the Western Hemisphere and what Russia set out to do (but failed and is now doing) in Ukraine.

 

[Goldhedge]

I said back in '14 that should just divide the nation in two.

I agree, but the west will say that the east has all these resources Russia wants... as if the west didn't want them? Probably the real reason for the Ukraine war from the gitgo....

 

[Goldhedge]

USA (CIA) has done real shitty stuff all over the western hemisphere (especially to Central America). No argument from me there.

But there is a difference between what the USA has done in the Western Hemisphere and what Russia set out to do (but failed and is now doing) in Ukraine.

So you're saying Russia has the same world interests as the US...? Interesting....

 

[pmbug]

...
More than 800 signatories... on a petition? Is that supposed to mean they're 'experts'... trying to convince me to change my mind, or did they go by the local mall and ask folks to sign a petition like they do in the US?

If you want to understand the context, you really need to read the whole story (and understand the full extent of the Russian government propaganda).

 

[Joe King]

@pmbug , if the following is true,


"The list of destroyed strains published by RIA Novosti and other Russian media outlets contains not a single particularly dangerous strain."

Why would they be concerned about anything escaping the lab, if there was nothing dangerous there?

"the Ukrainian effort to ensure that an attack on the lab there could not cause the accidental release of bacteria seems prudent."





synthetic biology methods were being tested there to enhance the microorganisms’ pathogenic properties.”

We do that stuff in Boston now. They just created a wuflu strain there that is > 800times more deadly than the original.
YaY! for science! Lol

 

[pmbug]

@Joe King - I don't have time to investigate your question right now. I'll revisit whenever I get a chance.

 

[Joe King]

USA (CIA) has done real shitty stuff all over the western hemisphere (especially to Central America). No argument from me there.

Not just in the Western Hemisphere, but World wide.

Iran in '52 where we installed a pro-West leader in order to gain access to their resources, was their first of many foreign operations.

Was it right for us to have done that?

 

[pmbug]

Was it right for us to have done that?

Clearly not.

 

[Goldhedge]

Why would they be concerned about anything escaping the lab, if there was nothing dangerous there?

and why would they destroy them, begging the question, if there was nothing dangerous there?

@Joe King - I don't have time to investigate your question right now. I'll revisit whenever I get a chance.

"Russia's chaotic retreat..."

the west keeps touting the rout of "Russian troops". From what I've read/heard from several sources the professional "Russian military" wasn't ever there. It was the local DPR (think National Guard) troops who aren't seasoned fighters. Border patrol?

Retreating is a military strategy. Let them take useless territory while saving troops and equipment to fight another day. Then, because you know the area you can bomb the hell out of the advancers...?

Since Putin called up 300,000 reserve 'Russian' troops I sense the game is about to change.

 

[searcher]

Read these on USNI.

Lessons from Russian Missile Performance in Ukraine​

By Mark B. Schneider
October 2022
Proceedings Vol. 148/10/1,436

The 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine has involved the largest use of land-attack missiles in history, with launches from all basing modes. On 21 March, the Pentagon stated that the “Russians have launched more than 1,100 missiles,” and that “they have also suffered a not-insignificant number of failures of those munitions.” Four days later, the Pentagon added that “they’re still launching a lot of missiles,” but Russia was experiencing “a significant amount of [missile] failure” including “failure to actually launch or failure to hit the target.”

On 4 April, the Pentagon claimed Russia had launched more than 1,400 missiles and that its residual inventory is the lowest in cruise missiles. In late May, Ukrainian President Volodomyr Zelensky stated that Russia had launched 2,154 missiles and Ukraine believes Russia has depleted 60 percent of its precision-missile arsenal. Since April, resupply has been difficult and inventory depletion has continued.

This very large expenditure of missiles was clearly not planned because Russia expected a quick victory. Russia’s efforts to replace its missiles will be very difficult because of cost, production limitations, and the impact of the sanctions. Worse still, from a Russian standpoint, is that the attacks have demonstrated there are significant problems with the performance of Russian cruise missiles.

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Lessons from Russian Missile Performance in Ukraine

Careful analysis reveals that Russian missile performance in Ukraine has been poor compared with the capabilities Moscow has advertised.

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French Foreign Minister Warns Russian Victory in Ukraine Could Spark Worldwide Wars of Conquest​

By: John Grady
October 24, 2022 2:42 PM

Wars of conquest could become the new normal if unprovoked attacks like Russia’s invasion of Ukraine go unchecked, France’s minister for Europe and foreign affairs warned last week.

The invasion provides models for other aggressors in Europe, the Indo-Pacific, Middle East and Africa, Catherine Colonna said Friday at the Center for Strategic and International Studies.

“The stakes are far beyond Ukraine and Europe,” she said. “We cannot afford that” to happen.

On Ukraine, she said France and the European Union agree that “we will support our partners as long as it takes.” France itself is taking in 2,000 Ukrainian troops for advanced weapons systems training and the other 26 EU members will train 13,000 more.

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French Foreign Minister Warns Russian Victory in Ukraine Could Spark Worldwide Wars of Conquest - USNI News

Wars of conquest could become the new normal if unprovoked attacks like Russia’s invasion of Ukraine go unchecked, France’s minister for Europe and foreign affairs warned last week. The invasion provides models for other aggressors in Europe, the Indo-Pacific, Middle East and Africa, Catherine...

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