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pmbug said:
USA already called Saudi's bluff on abandoning the petrodollar. They blinked. MBS flexed in killing Kashoggi and getting away with it, but they are still trading in dollars. The rest of the middle east kowtows. I really don't see a hypothetical BRIC currency gaining enough traction to unseat king dollar. If the Euro couldn't swing it, the BRICs sure as hell wont. $.02
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BUT....the euro was not backed by tangibles. The only reason Breton Woods happened was because the US had all the gold. With Russia DWARFING the USA's CLAIMED 8300 tons and China reportedly having upwards of 30,000-50,000 tons (because they don't export what they mine, but do not officially say how much they have), it is very possible to unseat the dollar if the world decides that real wealth lies with things you can use to actually make/can buy things with/heat your home/run your vehicle.
 
Barrettone said:
BUT....the euro was not backed by tangibles. The only reason Breton Woods happened was because the US had all the gold. With Russia DWARFING the USA's CLAIMED 8300 tons and China reportedly having upwards of 30,000-50,000 tons (because they don't export what they mine, but do not officially say how much they have), it is very possible to unseat the dollar if the world decides that real wealth lies with things you can use to actually make/can buy things with/heat your home/run your vehicle.
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I hear you, but I forsee some real problems with the possibility of a gold backed BRIC currency. First of all, Russia is a bit of a pariah on the world stage right now. China is way too closed off to be trusted on anything without transparency and independent verification. They going to let the G20 audit their vaults? They going to let go of the tight control they have on their currency? I'll believe it when I see it.
 
pmbug said:
I hear you, but I forsee some real problems with the possibility of a gold backed BRIC currency. First of all, Russia is a bit of a pariah on the world stage right now. China is way too closed off to be trusted on anything without transparency and independent verification. They going to let the G20 audit their vaults? They going to let go of the tight control they have on their currency? I'll believe it when I see it.
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I can't find this map now but I saw one on Twitter. 65% of the world's population lives in an area within the sphere of Russian and Chinese influence. The West comparatively is a small market. I wouldn't assume things will remain the way they have been. The West is going to lose its influence maybe sooner than you think.
 
pmbug said:
I hear you, but I forsee some real problems with the possibility of a gold backed BRIC currency. First of all, Russia is a bit of a pariah on the world stage right now. China is way too closed off to be trusted on anything without transparency and independent verification. They going to let the G20 audit their vaults? They going to let go of the tight control they have on their currency? I'll believe it when I see it.
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I get your point, but I'd counter that we're quite the pariah nation ourselves, and I haven't seen a fed audit in...well...forever.
 
If you think this pop is based solely on the bank problem you might be right in the short term and the move could be retraced but this is most likely the way it ends.
 
Silver. I'm feeling short squeeze. Legs? No legs? Dunno.
 
Well this is cute in a sickening sort of way. The UN is trying to call out the Central Banks.

finance.yahoo.com

U.N. agency warns of recession linked to 'imprudent' monetary policy

GENEVA (Reuters) -A United Nations agency warned on Monday of the risk of a monetary policy-induced global recession that would have especially serious consequences for developing countries and called for a new strategy. "Excessive monetary tightening could usher in a period of stagnation and...
finance.yahoo.com finance.yahoo.com
 
Voodoo said:
Well this is cute in a sickening sort of way. The UN is trying to call out the Central Banks.

finance.yahoo.com

U.N. agency warns of recession linked to 'imprudent' monetary policy

GENEVA (Reuters) -A United Nations agency warned on Monday of the risk of a monetary policy-induced global recession that would have especially serious consequences for developing countries and called for a new strategy. "Excessive monetary tightening could usher in a period of stagnation and...
finance.yahoo.com finance.yahoo.com
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The UN calling out anyone is laughable.

The UN is pretending to call out the central banks only to get the idea of improper monetary policies publicly discredited and so the banks and politicians can say that their so-called imprudent actions were proven to be a tin foil hat conspiracy theory. The UN is nothing more than a Baghdad Bob for the cabal.
 
OldGarandDad said:
The UN calling out anyone is laughable.

The UN is pretending to call out the central banks only to get the idea of improper monetary policies publicly discredited and so the banks and politicians can say that their so-called imprudent actions were proven to be a tin foil hat conspiracy theory. The UN is nothing more than a Baghdad Bob for the cabal.
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They getting read to ride in and save us as global governors! I expect that this crisis will be used to push in that direction.
 
Voodoo said:
Well this is cute in a sickening sort of way. The UN is trying to call out the Central Banks.
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Yeah, she wasn't caling out central banks. She was calling out The Fed.
...
Asked about solutions, she suggested there were other ways to bring inflation down, mentioning windfall taxes on corporations, better regulations to control commodity speculation and efforts to resolve supply-side bottlenecks.
...
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Yeah, because those have all worked so well in history. The Fed is *hoping* for recessionary pain. It's necessary to curb inflation (which also hurts the people she is championing).

I read this sort of nonsense and think it's likely something produced at the behest of The Fed to give them some political cover to reverse course (on raising rates) now that systemic risks to the system are percolating.
 
pmbug said:
I hear you, but I forsee some real problems with the possibility of a gold backed BRIC currency.
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This stuff will never be easy.

pmbug said:
First of all, Russia is a bit of a pariah on the world stage right now.
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Really that view only exists in the sphere of western media influence. The USA setup this war, NATO breached treaties, Russia was pushed to respond in this way. They knew that when they first started intervening in the Ukrainian political scene way back when. This war was totally avoidable. A very big chunk of the worlds population sees it that way, Vlad is seen more as a strong man standing up to a bully. That is probably more common inside the BRIC area. I know you don't hear it much but sadly the USA isn't trusted anywhere near as much as it once was.

Personally that is not to say that I support any of the dogs in this fight, but it is just that... a dog fight with no clean skins.

pmbug said:
China is way too closed off to be trusted on anything without transparency and independent verification. They going to let the G20 audit their vaults?
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We know that they have way more gold than they admit to. The calculation comes to ~30K tons with another 20K tons in the hands of the people. Being China you have to assume that the regime will have some access to the peoples gold if they want it. Yes absolutely they would let it be audited because they are not lying. The question is more would the G20 audit it or would they just poo poo the holdings and idea of even looking. The latter is more likely. Anyway, the thing is that they don't need anyone outside the BRIC's currency to approve of the backing and it is most probably going to be a basket of commodities, including energy.

Let us also not forget that the USA has not audited their gold in many decades, has an extensive gold lease program where by gold on the books has been leased and sold off, it is only owned in an accounting sense. Globally the suspicion is that the USA has also sold off much of the gold in storage that belongs to other countries. It did take many years to return Germany's gold after all! Why when you could do it in 48hrs IF you actually had it?

King dollar has no clothes and the world knows that much. So who you gonna trust if you are not in the western club?

pmbug said:
They going to let go of the tight control they have on their currency? I'll believe it when I see it.
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This is an international settlement currency, it will not be used internally. Using it internally would cause the same sorts of issues that the Euro has, you need a centralized debt market and fiscal policy to do that. They will retain domestic currencies floating against the settlement currency.

Barrettone said:
I get your point, but I'd counter that we're quite the pariah nation ourselves, and I haven't seen a fed audit in...well...forever.
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Yes. Nothing against the people of the USA but the management of the USA is often seen as a selfish wrecking ball globally doing way more damage than good. Draining the swap was a damn good idea but I fear that opportunity has passed.

I don't like any of the options here, but my job is to survive the changes. Happily I am at the arse end of the world, far away from 'civilization' and out of the line of fire. Not that I really think the dispute will get that hot, but I do think we are closer than we have ever been to pulling the scary toys out.
 
pmbug said:
Yeah, she wasn't caling out central banks. She was calling out The Fed.


Yeah, because those have all worked so well in history. The Fed is *hoping* for recessionary pain. It's necessary to curb inflation (which also hurts the people she is championing).

I read this sort of nonsense and think it's likely something produced at the behest of The Fed to give them some political cover to reverse course (on raising rates) now that systemic risks to the system are percolating.
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The tax thing will work like the 70's price fixing effort... it's like they don't get free markets!
 
Lancers32 said:
I can't find this map now but I saw one on Twitter. 65% of the world's population lives in an area within the sphere of Russian and Chinese influence. The West comparatively is a small market. I wouldn't assume things will remain the way they have been. The West is going to lose its influence maybe sooner than you think.
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No... and we are overly indebted and they are producing the 'stuff of life'....

At least the USA has a solid natural resource base. It could be a lot worse, all you need is policy reversal. We are similar in that regard so all is not lost for us.... we do need oil, but the rest is all good.
 
Where do you see this policy reversal coming from?
 
With the BRIC's currency thing let's keep in mind we are not talking about using a national currency as a reserve currency we're talking about a specifically created and backed reserve. All other national currencies would float against this reserve. As such the mechanism that the reserve operates through has to be trusted not any one member nation. Blockchain technology could be used to set this up as a hard currency and put it outside the control of any given nation. In fact I think you'd have to go that path to gain everyone's trust.
 
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OldGarandDad said:
The UN calling out anyone is laughable.

The UN is pretending to call out the central banks only to get the idea of improper monetary policies publicly discredited and so the banks and politicians can say that their so-called imprudent actions were proven to be a tin foil hat conspiracy theory. The UN is nothing more than a Baghdad Bob for the cabal.
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That's so when it all falls down and goes boom the UN can come to the rescue as the only savior the world needs.
 
@Zed - if you run across any solid news on the development of this supposed BRICS currency, please share. I haven't seen anything recently out of my usual tabs on the Davos, WEF, G8/G20 news.
 
pmbug said:
@Zed - if you run across any solid news on the development of this supposed BRICS currency, please share. I haven't seen anything recently out of my usual tabs on the Davos, WEF, G8/G20 news.
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I think it will be largely ignored on our side of the fence until it happens. They claim to be 'ready' but I'm not sure if that means imminent, realistically there could be years of negotiation after things like platforms etc have been sorted out.

It's getting this sort of coverage inside the BRIC's...

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...new-reserve-currency/articleshow/94628034.cms

Frankly I expect these guys (Davos, WEF, G8/G20) to ignore it until it becomes a thing. Even then they will want it to flop and go away... which it might. I will reserve my personal judgement until I understand what they have done. Maybe they half ass it, but I'd not bet on that.
 
This is older...

In March 2022, BRICS indicated that two countries (Iran and Argentina) had filed formal applications to join BRICS, with three additional countries (Egypt, Turkey and Saudi Arabia), having already started their application process.
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Countries also started buying US treasury securities, which inevitably led to the market being flooded with paper money. As a result, countries once more started converting dollar reserves to gold, prompting President Richard Nixon to de-link the dollar from gold and leading to floating exchange rates.

Despite this delinking, the dollar remains the world’s reserve currency with 59% of international central banks holding reserves in dollars and 40% of global trade transacts in USD. Comparatively, the US contributes less than 10% of global trade.
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That 10% number was much bigger... now, well, you can see how the rest of the world is wondering how long it can go on trading in another countries currency... especially if they are not so friendly.
 
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