Ukraine

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British iEarlGrey covers the discussion at hand...

'Western Values' - The People Losing EVERYTHING For Reporting The Truth. Liz 'The Lettuce' Truss.​

Risking life and freedom for the truth about Donbass: foreign journalists ask for protection from the Russian Federation

21m
 
title says it all

WARNINGS! This is how WAR propaganda works | Redacted with Clayton Morris​

30m
 
This is the wests coverage of the Ukraine advance

SkyNews​

Ukraine War: 'The battle for Kherson is now on'​

Oct 20, 2022
1:50
 

Ukrainian drone drops bomb on Russian soldier sending his helmet flying​

1min
 
Prime example of west censoring ANY truth that doesn't fit the narrative.... @13 m mark

Elensky curse strikes twice in UK. EU sanctions Iran. French TV cuts broadcast. U/2​

15m
 
How the west is keeping track of the war

NATO surveillance plane watches Russia's activity in Ukraine​

8min
 
Plenty good money to be made supplying the Army with the tools of the trade....

Lawmakers seek emergency powers for Pentagon’s Ukraine war contracting​

WASHINGTON ― Bipartisan legislation introduced in the Senate would grant the Pentagon wartime procurement powers, allowing it to buy massive amounts high-priority munitions using multi-year contracts to help Ukraine fight Russia and to refill U.S. stockpiles.
www.defensenews.com

Lawmakers seek emergency powers for Pentagon’s Ukraine war contracting

Proposal aims at ramp up the U.S. defense industrial base and helping European allies arm up.
www.defensenews.com www.defensenews.com
 
he also said Germany had freed itself from dependence on Russian gas, not by choice however...

German leader says Putin’s ‘scorched earth’ tactics will fail against Ukraine​

Speaking to the German parliament, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said Germany had freed itself from dependence on Russian gas but was working to bring energy prices down​

German Chancellor Olaf Scholz on Thursday said that Russian president Vladimir Putin was weaponizing energy and hunger but has failed to break the West’s unity and will not achieve his war aims through scorched earth tactics.

Speaking to the German parliament, he also said Germany had freed itself from dependence on Russian gas but was working to bring energy prices down, including by securing new gas delivery contracts from other countries.

more:
gerceknews.com

German leader says Putin’s ‘scorched earth’ tactics will fail against Ukraine

Speaking to the German parliament, German Chancellor Olaf Scholz said Germany had freed itself from dependence on Russian gas but was working to bring energy prices down
gerceknews.com gerceknews.com
 
Good question, not sure the video gives the answer however. Only issue I have is how does one tell who's tank is who's when they both use the same tank!

How Many Tanks Does Russia Have Left Now? With Exclusive Satellite Imagery!​

9m
 
I wouldn't say this will happen...

Putin ally recommends Russia use low-yield nuclear weapons in Ukraine​

Ramzan Kadyrov said he believes 'more drastic measures' should be taken in Ukraine​

Chechen leader Ramzan Kadyrov on Saturday urged Moscow to consider deploying low-yield nuclear weapons in Ukraine after Russian forces retreated from the city of Lyman.

In a post shared on Telegram, Kadyrov said he believes "more drastic measures should be taken, right up to the declaration of martial law in the border areas and the use of low-yield nuclear weapons."

Kadyrov is a close ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, who appointed him to govern restive Chechnya in 2007.

www.foxnews.com

Putin ally recommends Russia use low-yield nuclear weapons in Ukraine

Chechen leader and Putin ally Ramzan Kadyrov said Saturday that Russia should consider using low-yield nuclear weapons in its war against Ukraine.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
 
Goldhedge said:
I wouldn't say this will happen...
Click to expand...
I've seen western media warning about Russia possibly using a nuke. I've also seen Russian media warning that the west would use a nuke. I've seen media from both sides claim that the other side would use a nuke as a false flag.

Using a nuke would burn every global bridge/goodwill that exists. No one is going to risk that for direct gain much less hope of winning a propaganda war in pinning a false flag on the other. They are all rational actors supposedly.
 
pmbug said:
I've seen western media warning about Russia possibly using a nuke. I've also seen Russian media warning that the west would use a nuke. I've seen media from both sides claim that the other side would use a nuke as a false flag.

Using a nuke would burn every global bridge/goodwill that exists. No one is going to risk that for direct gain much less hope of winning a propaganda war in pinning a false flag on the other. They are all rational actors supposedly.
Click to expand...
Completely agree.

What I see is the US lighting up a tactical and blaming Russia for it in order to escalate.

Hillary did sell 25% of US uranium with an identifiable marker that links Russia to that batch.... it wouldn't be difficult to make the case.
 
Goldhedge said:
Hillary did sell 25% of US uranium with an identifiable marker that links Russia to that batch.... it wouldn't be difficult to make the case.
Click to expand...
The US sold a war with Iraq on WMDs that didn't exist. They (eventually) got called out on it by the American people. Obama got elected and the neocon/GOP leadership from the time was disgraced. Making the case for a false flag Russian nuke is going to have to convince not just the American public, but the world. Way too much risk to try and pull off IMO - especially with so little to gain. Haven't you been paying attention to western media? Russia is losing.
 
Goldhedge said:
The only problem with watching media from either side is the propaganda angle.

If I watch US TV (I don't) it's Putin is evil and 'invaded' Ukraine (ala the USSR rolling tanks into Yugoslavia or Hungary)
If I watch Russian TV (I don't) it's the Nazi's are killing Russian civilians in Ukraine.

I prefer the indy reporters asking the people what's going on.

That, and watching the actions of politicians and not listening to their words.


Another 'problem' is Twitter. I used to have an account back in the day when it was barely a platform. When they wanted my phone number to prove (harvest) I was me, I declined. Now every time I visit their platform I get to view 2 posts before it locks up telling me to 'sign in' to view more. Screw that!
Click to expand...
And there are sources in Russia that hate Putin so it's a similar situation as with Trump in the US media (orange man bad).

There are many sources out there.... slants of all kinds.

Confirmation bias is a funny thing. Everybody thinks it's the other person who has it.

I say, follow the money. There's definitely a problem with money laundering, politicians, and this situation in Ukraine. That isn't something that can be blamed on Putin. Had everyone lived up to the Minsk Agreements there would be no Russian troops entering Ukraine in February.

I don't think Putin is perfect by any means. I don't think Donald Trump is perfect either. But I sure would rather have either one of them than the neocon warmongers that are running the show currently. One can call me whatever foul names one likes.

You can't blame Putin for the West not honoring MINSK I and MINSK II.
The fact is clear, had the United States kept its nose out of things, we wouldn't be having this conversation now.
It is NATO that is to blame for this mess. Keep poking the bear. It won't matter what bias anyone has.

As usually happens, we all will see a clearer picture a couple decades from now... if we live so long.
.
 
SongSungAu said:
... You can't blame Putin for the West not honoring MINSK I and MINSK II. ...
Click to expand...

The west wasn't a party to the Minsk agreements. Russia was but claims they weren't. There is a whole lot of finger pointing over the failure of the agreements and it appears to me there is ample evidence that both Russia and Ukraine acted in bad faith.

en.m.wikipedia.org

Minsk agreements - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org en.m.wikipedia.org

This war in Ukraine isn't about Minsk IMO. Putin's puppet in Ukraine got deposed and he could not abide that. Everything else is theater. $.02
 
War and Regrets in Ukraine
Washington may regret its role in the war in Ukraine.

Douglas Macgregor - Oct 19, 2022


Of the Vietnam War, Henry Kissinger, former national security advisor and secretary of State under Presidents Nixon and Ford, said, “We should never have been there.” Before long, Americans, even the politicians inside the Beltway, will reach the same conclusion about Washington’s Ukrainian proxy war against Russia.

No one in the White House, the Senate, or the House consciously set out to turn the proxy Ukrainian war with Moscow into a contest of “competitive societal collapse” between Russia and NATO. But here we are. No one imagined that the Biden administration and the bipartisan war party would drive Americans and Europeans into a political, military, and economic valley of death, from which there is no easy escape. Yet that is precisely what is happening.

For the moment, Washington remains blind to these developments. Whether in print, radio, television, or online, the narrative is clear: despite horrific losses—at least 400,000 Ukrainian battlefield casualties including 100,000 soldiers killed in action—Ukrainian forces are winning. Moreover, the narrative says, America’s financial and economic dominance will ultimately overwhelm the deceptively weak Russian economy.

The Ukrainian-victory narrative admittedly benefits hugely from Western media that actively “tune out” opposing views and depict Russia and its armed forces in the worst possible light. The fact that nearly half a century of the Cold War conditioned Americans to think the worst of Russians certainly helps.

Yet there is also a measure of “true faith” at work, a condition of national narcissism, inside the Beltway that believes Washington can control what happens thousands of miles away in Eastern Ukraine. The message resonates in Congress because it rests on a critical strategic assumption that American citizens have yet to challenge: that American national power is limitless and unconstrained—as though a series of strategic failures, from Vietnam to Afghanistan, never happened.

Read the rest at the link:

www.theamericanconservative.com

War and Regrets in Ukraine - The American Conservative

Washington may regret its role in the war in Ukraine.
www.theamericanconservative.com www.theamericanconservative.com
.
 
Joe King said:
Yes, supposedly.
Click to expand...

exactly

when one considers all the lies from the Gulf of Tonkin , JFK , weapons of mass destruction , Ruby Ridge , Waco , and 9-11 , and more …

whichever side has the history of committing the most dastardly deeds has the best chance of pulling the pin on the nuke

i am sure USSR and KGB and Putin have a long list of dirty laundry to improve their odds of the nuke option
 
One of the folks that has been interesting to follow during this Ukraine situation this year has been Jacob Dreizin. I'm not sure but I think he lives in the Washington D.C. swamp or very near there.

GOP Likes Hummus?
Published by dreizinreport on October 19, 2022
thedreizinreport.com

GOP Likes Hummus?

Hey everybody! It’s another installment of plague, the Ukraine (but I repeat myself), and more “Tulsi”-bashing. What’s not to like? Well, Now We Know EVERYONE Is Making New …
thedreizinreport.com thedreizinreport.com

excerpt:

DR221019.jpg
.
 

Nearly a dozen face charges for sending military tech, oil to Russia​


Nearly a dozen people, including five Russian nationals and two oil brokers from Venezuela, were arrested and charged in a scheme to send American military technology to Russia, some of which has been allegedly found on battlefields in Ukraine, according to the Justice Department.

Federal prosecutors, with help from the department’s Task Force KleptoCapture, revealed two separate indictments yesterday. The task force was stood up earlier this year to enforce sanctions against the Russian elite.

www.navytimes.com

Nearly a dozen face charges for sending military tech, oil to Russia

Nearly a dozen people were arrested and charged in a scheme to send military tech to Russia, some of which was allegedly found on battlefields in Ukraine.
www.navytimes.com www.navytimes.com
 
"will of the population" - Is that with or without a gun to their heads?
 
Alex is in Greece giving his logical perspective

Boris comeback, Larry the Cat as UK PM. Musk Twitter deal, US security concerns. Drone hysteria. U/1​

25min
 
Interesting interview with Scott Ritter

Scott RItter - Ukraine Russia War Latest​

14m
 
pmbug said:
"will of the population" - Is that with or without a gun to their heads?
Click to expand...
Why would you assume they would have to have a gun to their heads to vote the way they did?

From what I understand, the people there have been at odds with those running Ukraine for the past 8 years.
If that is true, I would not expect them to vote any way other than how they did.
 
pmbug said:
"will of the population" - Is that with or without a gun to their heads?
Click to expand...
Not to 'pile on' here, but this was the mantra of the MSM. There were no guns to heads to vote.

Were soldiers with guns at the election site? Yes, to protect the election boxes! The west would have liked nothing better than to disrupt the election. Plenty of videos of people voting and commenting why they voted. They also voted on the same referendum back in 2014 for the same reason, but that was ignored by the PTB.

I wish we would do that here in the good ol' USofA for our so-called 'elections'!
 
Joe King said:
Why would you assume they would have to have a gun to their heads to vote the way they did?
Click to expand...
There are folks that support Russia. There are folks who don't. How much of of a given population fits into each basket is an open question. If all you read/watch is Russian media, you likely didn't see reports* from people in the occupied areas complaining about coercion in their forced voting.

... Authorities in occupied parts of the southern Ukrainian oblasts (regions) of Zaporizhzhia and Kherson quickly followed suit, declaring that they too would hold votes on whether to break away from Ukraine and become part of the Russian Federation.

All four of these regions are active war zones which many residents have fled, with reports of fighting and explosions on a daily basis.

Local Ukrainian officials reported numerous incidents of voter coercion in the five days of voting, with photos and videos popping up on social media indicating a process that was neither free nor fair.

One video widely shared on the Telegram messaging app and Twitter shows security footage purportedly from an apartment building in an occupied area, with two armed soldiers escorting officials carrying ballot boxes through a stairwell. Another video showed residents at a polling place filling out ballots with Russian officials monitoring across the table.

Most of the vote was carried out by poll workers — under armed guard — bringing paper ballots door to door, as the process was so rushed there wasn't time to set up more complex voting infrastructure, according to the Russian state news agency TASS.
...
Click to expand...

www.npr.org

Occupied regions of Ukraine vote to join Russia in staged referendums

The so-called referendums — which Ukraine, the U.S. and others have denounced as shams — are widely viewed as an initial Kremlin move toward formal Russian annexation of the territories.
www.npr.org www.npr.org

* or you saw them, but confirmation bias precludes you from giving evidence that doesn't align with your world view any credence.
 
Goldhedge said:
... There were no guns to heads to vote.
Click to expand...

"guns to the head" is figurative. It means intimidation/coercion.

Goldhedge said:
Were soldiers with guns at the election site? Yes, to protect the election boxes! The west would have liked nothing better than to disrupt the election.
Click to expand...

Really? The west has agents/soldiers/operatives in the Russian occupied areas in sufficient numbers to disrupt an election? You really believe that?

Goldhedge said:
Plenty of videos of people voting and commenting why they voted. ...
Click to expand...

I don't doubt that there are folks who were pro Russia that made videos and were promoted by Russian media. It's also true that there are videos from folks who are against Russia that complained about coercion that were promoted by western media. Neither side has a monopoly on truth (or lies for that matter). As I said, how much of the population* fits into each basket is an open question.

* bear in mind that there are reports that Russia has expatriated large numbers of Ukrainians to internment camps in Russia. I'm guessing they didn't imprison the residents that were pro-Russian.
 
pmbug said:
There are folks that support Russia. There are folks who don't. How much of of a given population fits into each basket is an open question. If all you read/watch is Russian media, you likely didn't see reports* from people in the occupied areas complaining about coercion in their forced voting.



www.npr.org

Occupied regions of Ukraine vote to join Russia in staged referendums

The so-called referendums — which Ukraine, the U.S. and others have denounced as shams — are widely viewed as an initial Kremlin move toward formal Russian annexation of the territories.
www.npr.org www.npr.org

* or you saw them, but confirmation bias precludes you from giving evidence that doesn't align with your world view any credence.
Click to expand...

I appreciate your views on Russia and the current situation in Ukraine


* or you saw them , but confirmation bias precludes you from giving evidence that doesn’t align with your world view any credence

couldnt that shoe fit on both feet?

I mean there are videos and “evidence” on both sides to support each other’s argument s , no?

do we have an impasse? or continue the tit for tat?
 
pmbug said:
There are folks that support Russia. There are folks who don't. How much of of a given population fits into each basket is an open question.
Click to expand...
That's right. Problem is, people like us have no way of actually knowing.
It all comes down to which propaganda one subscribes to.

All I know, is that supposedly the peoples of East and West Ukraine have been at odds with each other since 2014.

If that is true, I can't help but to think that most in the East would in fact vote the way they are said to have voted.

Why would anyone think they would vote in favor of those running Ukraine? If they had done that, it would have made their last eight years of resistance, be for nothing. They could have simply went along with them in 2014.
 
spinalcracker said:
I appreciate your views on Russia and the current situation in Ukraine
Click to expand...

I haven't actually espoused any personal views to be honest. I've groused a little at the overwhelming Russian media slant of commentary posted here. It amazes me how folks can be so suspicious and dismissive of the MSM or any (non-MSM) source that is west aligned, but be completely non-critical of the propaganda that Russia is putting out. It's confirmation bias and I point it out because it's the death of critical thinking.

spinalcracker said:
couldnt that shoe fit on both feet?
Click to expand...

Yeah. I'm constantly challenging myself to limit confirmation bias. Keeping an open and critical mind takes effort. It's hard work to maintain a high level of vigilance.
 
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Joe King said:
... All I know, is that supposedly the peoples of East and West Ukraine have been at odds with each other since 2014. ...
Click to expand...

Longer than that. That's just the flashpoint where Putin's pal got deposed and the country held an election. The eastern regions of Ukraine aren't homogeneous entities. There is a percentage of folk in the east that is/was/were pro-Russian. They became a pawn in the proxy war between Russia and the west. Russia lost patience with the proxy part and thought they could shock and awe a solution. That didn't happen and here we are.

en.wikipedia.org

Revolution of Dignity - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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