Ukraine

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SongSungAu said:
I understand you have swallowed the West's view of Russia. Fine. Whatever makes you feel good.
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lulz. I suspect that I'm the only one here that has any actual real experience working with and talking to Russians. I spent a lot of time working in Lithuania - a former Eastern Bloc country where no one had a nice word to say about their former Russian overlords.
 
I'm a little fuzzy on my history, is the former Soviet Union the same thing as Russia?
 
Evl Bnkr said:
I'm a little fuzzy on my history, is the former Soviet Union the same thing as Russia?
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When Lithuania was part of USSR, Russians owned and controlled everything (business and government). Lithuanian locals talked to me about life during USSR years. There are still many Russians living and working in Lithuania including at the site where I was working.

[csb]In the city where I was working, almost all the buildings looked the same - one block long and five stories high. Locals explained to me that they were all built to Russian building codes and they didn't build any buildings over five stories tall because Russian building codes would have required them to include elevators.[/csb]
 

That's not a surprise. They broke away from a fairly Communist country. What do you think Floridians would have to say about the USSA if the US breaks apart?
 
Not a valid suspicion. When I worked in Estonia and former East Germany, the folks I worked with articulated their understanding of the difference between USSR and Russia, and they also recognized that it was not in their best interest to articulate any political opinion, even after the wall came down. I understand that as the embodiment of the USSR, many Russians rightfully earned the contempt of the citizens of the "vassel" states. The same could be said for many Russian citizen's living in Russia before the demise of the USSR. Ever read Solzhenitsyn?

I also understand that today Russia's political, social, international paradigm/demeanor is not a lockstep continuation of that of the former USSR. As I understand it, in a large part the reason Putin is in position today is because of the recognition of the need to distance/seperate Russia from the history of the USSR.

I think a good analogy might be that 100% (or even a simple majority) of Germans today are not National Socialists (you know the synonym/acronym) in their political/social proclivities and as such should not be painted with that brush. It is my humble suggestion that the same modicum of decency/respect should apply to Russians.

Of course there is the possibility that I am completely wrong because nothing has been proven, if it ever can be, but I believe time will tell. Of course it will depend on who gets to write the history. (hint - it is always the victors)

YMMV
 

From my basic understanding of the Marty interview, Putin was popular and sort of Russia's Trump. In that he was Not an Oligarch and Not a member of the Communists when selected. So that's a pretty big step to the better from their point of view.
 
I've been to St. Petersburg. Talked with the locals. They are just like you and I are. Peasants working, getting married, raising their children living and dying. Their lives go on in spite of the government.

It's not your father's USSR these days, though it seems western memories and ignorance still believe they are one and the same.

As for the USSR, I think their government was usurped then in as much as 'our' government of late has been usurped today. We all see it, but can do nothing about it.
 

2022.06.05 What Happens To Europe When Russia Wins​

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WSJ, US-Russia in talks. Pavlivka, fierce fighting. Odessa, FB vote to remove Catherine. U/1​

34m
 
Double header!

Economics Of Military Industrial Complexes in Russia and US.​

34m

Relations Between Different Things​

35m
 
It appears you are wrong, at least a couple of users have, and I will add my name to the list. I guess you have been living in a pm bubble over here on this forum. Everybody here from GIM2 knows my story, so I won't bother boring them (or you).

Just let me say I was shocked to find how much my Polish refugee from communism (naturalized since 1991) mother of my son hated Ukrainians. She had a look of evil on her face. Even more evil than when Russians are mentioned. Like George Wallace and black folks.


Thank you for your fact filled and informative post. My inlaws are from around Vilnius, "Russian" bosheiviks murdered the family head and stole all the lands and money. Some went east to Siberia, some went west. The grandmother of my wife went to Siberia, traveled after some adventures to Bagdad with a group of Polish men, she joined Anders' Army in exile there. My son has one of her cap badges, my wife has the other. Just came up because my wife's aunt in Warsaw asked for one, she was my FIL sister but Grandma did not give her one. I told my wife no, Grandma did not give her one for a reason. We used her brand new one bedroom apartment in the "wealthy area" near the Embassy in Warsaw one night, I spotted a book in her glass case laying face up, it had a hammer and a sickle over a star of david, with the title and author in Polish.

So either she is a cryptic Jew Bolsheviki or an anti-Jewish anti-Communist, IDK, I am illiterate in Polish other than a couple of words so I don't know what the book was about.

Nobody I ever met in Poland expressed any Pro Russian comments. Even the cousin's wife whose father was young and was put in the Russian Army out of Siberia exile. In Berlin after the victory, all the soldiers got hammered to the heavens, he did too, and then he shot and killed a number of Russians that had gathered around a fountain. He was arrested but later explained in his drunken stupor, he thought they were Germans. He was criticized for drinking to excess but not punished. That is her family's favorite WWII story.

Oh, my son speaks Russian and Polish and English and some Spanish. He has been to Russia several times with US sponsorship and also a couple of US Army approved travels. He gave me the scoop on the local yokels there, he is bored by tourist stuff in general and tends to seek out the places where the working man hangs out.
 
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Gosh I had no idea the Russians were getting smoked over there that bad.

Why don't they pop smoke and jet out of there? Nobody wants those medieval looking shacks, concrete huts and dusty fields,.
 
The "Bandera way" was always work with anyone and anything to create the Ukraine. Against the Poles, then with the Poles, with the Germans against the USSR, take down the AH Empire, against the Bolsheviks, anything that advances the agenda. They fought under the black flag until 1959. It's the way and always has been, to them the US is just a tool to get them where they want to be. The Banderists will team up or use anybody to get to the desired end state. Of course they want their people as close to the top as possible. They give a dang what happens to any of us.

The US role is something else. The US never had a problem with Stalin. Or Satan it appears now.
 
IMHO the Banderists did not see themselves as "collaborators" with the Germans, they saw themselves as joining the "liberators" in order to get proper weapons training etc. They would turn on the Germans when they got done with the Reds. In a heartbeat.

Ukraine divided over legacy of Nazi fighters

Local men who fought as part of the SS are remembered either as traitors or patriotic heros
www.timesofisrael.com





I don't know but I suspect I might have a bit of a problem with the Russian People if I went through what that guy above went through, commies or not commies. The type of people who did that to him (12 years in a labor camp) didn't evaporate after the USSR collapse. Just being honest here, I hope they expend their anger on each other and both become weak enough that they might reach an understanding to agree to disagree. For the sake of humanity.
 
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That's nothing new. You can find people here in the USA who have nothing nice to say about our political leaders. Pick anyone you like, you can find Americans who will tell you how awful they are. Not a very statistically significant way to determine the overall thoughts of the majority of the country.... any country.
 


Ukraine Openly Rejects Reported White House Pressure To Negotiate

ZeroHedge

ZeroHedge - On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero
www.zerohedge.com

A ZeroHedge reader comment says it all.
"Cut off the money and weapons...they'll go the negotiating table."

If the warmongers wanted this war over, it would be over. But that would mean they'd lose their "warmonger" benefits. So the war will continue.
May God help the common people.
.
 
gringott said:
The type of people who did that to him (12 years in a labor camp) didn't evaporate after the USSR collapse.
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That would be like saying the people who fought WWII didn't evaporate. The culture back in the 1940's doesn't exist today. Just look around. Watch an old movie. Same with the culture that went to Viet Nam. Riots at college campuses - 4 dead in Ohio? Look at how different we are today than then. Leaders change and culture changes, yet we're still the US - for a little while longer....

That's the problem with western Ukraine. They're hanging on to old memories of what had been in the 1940's as if that's how it is today and they want to punish today for the past. Kind of how 'reparations' are demanded for what happened 200+ years ago here?

"There are no angels in war." Elon Musk

Also there is a video showing the difference between the west's school books and the east's school books. The west teaches their children that Russia is evil. Any wonder why they hate the east? It's similar to how US schools and school boards have been usurped by the progressive left. It's why they had to remove the statues. It's why little Johnny thinks he's a girl. You get the picture?
 
Excellent point SongSungAu, Thank you for the comment, spot on.

In addition or to supplement SongSungAu's comments, the working man level thinks one thing in general, modified by employment, the manager class generally thinks another way, modified by employment, the ruling class thinks another way, usually lock step with whatever foreign entanglements they are committed to at the moment.

Seniors and young people such as students and young tradesmen have no filter and a large sample is usually easy to access around a University or Park.

Talk to the working man/family man for awhile, see the issues and good/bad effects of government polices etc. Then if you can find one or more engineers or technitions and get them to open up. The "elites" just do the research, the record is enough, no need to in person.


I like the street eye view, find out what is going on with the sidewalk shufflers, the park bench loiterers, the creatures of the neighborhood bar or tavern or pub. But I do the rest if possible.
It appears to be a modern day slow motion meat grinder. I guess most of us or at least half of us here understand that "peace" is the last thing wanted by many in this "thing". Shame on everybody facilitating this destruction on all sides.
 
Won't this be revealing once it comes out...? Almost like Rumsfeld telling us that Iraqi oil will pay for the war.

 
The things that go on behind the scenes we have no idea about.

 
Ukraine shells another military "target"


Последствия обстрела украинскими боевиками Кировского района Донецка, в результате которого погиб подросток

The consequences of shelling by Ukrainian militants of the Kirovsky district of Donetsk, as a result of which a teenager was killed
 
ISW SITREP for 11/7

Click here to see ISW’s interactive map of the Russian invasion of Ukraine. This map is updated daily alongside the static maps present in this report.

Key Takeaways
  • The Russian Ministry of Defense (MoD) issued a rare statement on November 7 in response to extensive Russian milblogger outcry about reported extensive losses and poor command within the 155th Naval Infantry Brigade of the Pacific Fleet.
  • The Russian pro-war siloviki faction (including Yevgeny Prigozhin and Ramzan Kadyrov) is increasing its influence in part to advance personal interests in Russia and occupied Ukraine, not strictly to win the war.
  • Russian forces have greatly depleted their arsenal of high-precision weapons systems and have suffered significant aviation losses and will likely struggle to maintain the current pace of the Russian military’s coordinated campaign against Ukrainian critical infrastructure.
  • Russian occupation authorities likely began a new phase of evacuations from Kherson Oblast.
  • Russian troops continued efforts to fix Ukrainian troops against the international border in northeastern Kharkiv Oblast.
  • Russian sources claimed that Ukrainian troops continued counteroffensive operations in the Svatove direction.
  • Russian sources claimed that Russian troops conducted limited counterattacks to regain lost positions west of Kreminna.
  • Russian sources widely claimed that proxy and Wagner Group troops entered the outskirts of Bilohorivka.
  • Russian sources reported that Ukrainian troops are massing in the Kherson Oblast direction.
  • Russian troops continued offensive operations around Bakhmut, in the Avdiivka-Donetsk City area, and in western Donetsk Oblast.
  • Ukrainian forces conducted limited interdiction efforts against Russian concentration areas in Zaporizhzhia Oblast.
  • Russian President Vladimir Putin continued to make public statements and signed additional decrees to portray himself as taking steps to fix fundamental problems with partial mobilization in Russia.
  • Russian and occupation officials continue to abduct Ukrainian children, intimidate civilians, and escalate filtration measures.
https://understandingwar.org/backgrounder/russian-offensive-campaign-assessment-november-7
 
Alex is a gas... US oil majors record price gains! LNG profits boom!

EU gas crisis in 2023, 24, 25... Pirates attack Hungary & Poland. Missile Math, 16-16=2. U/1​

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How Will The Ukraine Vs Russia WAR END - 3 Possible Outcomes​

15m
 
Thanks Joe King for the video.

Everything she said is true, I agree with her statement, and she should knows as a CFR member exactly why this situation is what it is.

Take the message and ignore the messenger.

Don't trust Tulsi, Tulsi is asshoe.
 
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